104 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE OX BOTANICAL WORK; 



Sir W. T. 

 Thiselton- 



Dyev, 

 K.C.M.G., 



F.R.S. 



29 Nov. 1900. 



present form, together with the maintenance of your 

 own at Kew ? — I really have not considered the matter. 

 1 consider the resources of Kew are practically ample for 

 every branch of botanical research, and I do not see 

 that we are hampered in any way by what is going on at 

 South Kensington. 



1281. It has been represented to us that in the in- 

 terests especially of botanical research, it would be a 

 great advantage to have the two collections in one spot 1 

 ■ — Tou must remember I am an official administrating an 

 establishment ; I cannot speak for persons engaged in 

 research — you must hear their story. You have com- 

 menced your examination, as I understand, with regard 

 to my official functions, and I am only answering in 

 regard to those. I am not aware — it does not come 

 officially before me — that the fact of the existence o_f a 

 Botanical Department at South Kensington is an im- 

 pediment to the work as far as I know it, but you must 

 understand I am not speaking as a researcher. Occa- 

 sionally I find it necessary to send one of my staff to 

 South Kensington to verify some particular fact, but I 

 have also to send occasionally to Paris or to Berlin. I 

 cannot say that is a working disadvantage. As I have 

 explained, you cannot practically concentrate in one 

 place all the material available for one particular kind 

 of research — it is impossible. 



1282. Tou do not attach any great importance to any 

 inconvenience which may result from your having to 

 send your officials to the British Museum to consult the 

 specimens 1 — Gloucester Road Station and Kew Gar- 

 dens Station are only 22 minutes apart, and I can send a 

 man up in the course of a morning, and the British 

 Museum, when they think proper, can in the same way 

 come to us. 



1283. The question which I addressed to you with re- 

 gard to the influence upon botanical science in general 

 was under the idea that in your positionl you hatl an 

 opportunity of observing botanical work, and although 

 the answer would not b© an official one, it would be 

 one which we could take from you? — There is not the 

 smallest doubt, of course, that if a man is engaged, as 

 a large number of people are engaged, in carrying on 

 independent research at Kew, it would be an advantage 

 to have all the material in one place. But it would 

 be equally convenient to have the collections from 

 Paris at Kew also ; there is no doubt a.bout that. 

 People who are working do not want to spend their 

 time in travelling. 



1284. It has been represented to us by various 

 authorities that it would be desirable in the interests of 

 botanical science to amalgamate the general herbarium 

 at the British Museum with that at Kew 1 — It is always 

 desirable to have available material concentrated in 

 one place. 



1285. Does that amalgamation present any objections 

 to you as the Director of the Royal Gardens at Kew ? — 

 It depends on what you mean by amalgamation. I can 

 only deal with the thing as an administrator, and if 

 you wiU assist me by explaining what you mean, I may 

 be able to answer your question. 



1286. There are three methods of amalgamation sug- 

 gested to us, first, complete incorporation of the two 

 herbaria?— I tliink I had better explain my view about 

 that at once. I have stated in this memorandum that 

 the herbarium at South Kensington, as far as _ I 

 know it, and the herbarium at Kew, are adminis- 

 tered on entirely different principles, and that if there 

 were no physical difficulties, which alone I consider 

 make the thing impracticable, I should certainly abso- 

 lutely decline to amalgamate the two herbaria, as 

 wrong in principle. The Kew herbarium has always 

 been administered as an instrument of research. A 

 mere accumulation is a thing that my predecessors and I 

 have always set our face against The material, is 

 always selected with the view to a definite object. At 

 the British Museum they amass material; Idonot 

 want to criticise proceedings entirely within their right, 

 but I consider that this has been done without 

 very responsible consideration of the object in 

 view. I mean that the general tradition which 

 I think runs all through the British Museum is 

 accumulation. That is not our principle. _ There- 

 fore to amalgamate the two herbaria which have 

 been brought together from a different point of 

 view, would simply paralyse us by inundating us with 

 an enormous bulk of undigested material, and would 

 throw our machine absolutely out of gear. It would be 

 far better to leave things as they are than to attempt 

 anything of that sort. 



1287. Including the weeding out of what seemed un- 



desirable to keep? — ^^Yho is to w»ed out? Weeding caa 

 only be done by instructed people, and it would take 

 a lifetime to critically sort from the accumuLations they 

 have at South Kensington what would be valuable, and 

 what would not. When the thing is done it would not 

 produce a herbarium better than that at Kew, but 

 simply produce a selected duplicate. The only possible- 

 mode in which the problem can be approached is that 

 of collocation, placing the two things side by side. 



1288. Do you think that on the whole would be an 

 advantage to Kew, or do you think it would be a dis- 

 advantage ? — I think it would be no advantage to Kew, 

 but it would be an advantage to men working at Kew. 



1289. But it would be neither an advantage nor a dis- 

 advantage to the general administration of the Royal 

 Botanic Gardens? — I suppose it would impose a great. 

 deal more responsibility on my shoulders as Director^ 

 and I do not know that there would be any compen- 

 sating advantage as far as I see. 



1290. The advantage would be confined to botanical 

 research? — ^Yes, cert.ainly. You must remember that 

 the object of Kew is not merely the administration of 

 the establishment ; it is also to promote botanical re-' 

 search throughout the country- — ^that was the object with, 

 which Mr. Bentham and other persons made large gifts- 

 to Kew. 



1291. You purchase collectionsfrom time to time for 

 the herbarium ? — Constantly. That is not the way, 

 however, in which Kew has been mainly built up. 

 Kew has been mainly built up by correspondents, and 

 by the assistance that we get. Our grant for pur- 

 chases for the herbarium and museums only amounts, 

 to £200 a year, which is a very small sum indeed. I 

 have no official knowledge on the subject, but I imagine 

 the British Museum has much larger sums. 



1292. When a person is going out on an expedition 

 does he ever offer to collect for you on certain terms 1 — 

 You cannot run a place like Kew without taking an 

 enormous amount of individual trouble. Things will 

 not drop into your mouth merely by keeping it open. 

 If we hear of anybody going to an interesting part of 

 the world we endeavour to get into personal relations 

 with him to encourage him and instruct him how to 

 collect. 



1293. And you pay him? — Usually we supply him 

 Avith a collecting outfit. When the collections come 

 back we name them, and assist in their publication, 

 and, of course, in every possible way stimulate new in- 

 vestigation. No money could do that. 



1294. But some money is spent ; a small amount ? — 

 There are a certain number of people in America, 

 Germany, and elsewhere who start small expeditions 

 on their own account, and they send round to all the 

 large herbaria a circular saying that they are going to, 

 we will say, the Cilician Taurus, or some interesting 

 place, and ask us if we will subscribe to that collec- 

 tion. Every case is dealt with on its own merits, and 

 if the tiling seems promising we undertake to subscribe, 

 and in that way we buy collections. That is a con- 

 siderable item. But I consider that tlie mass of new 

 material has been acquired by private encouragement. 

 For instance, I may take the case of Dr. Henry, who is 

 an officer of the Imperial Maritime Customs under Sir 

 Robert Hart. He was perfectly unknown to me, but 

 he wrote to me a letter on some trivial botanical point, 

 and I answered it, and a correspondence sprung up. 

 Dr. Henry has been one of the most successful botanical 

 collectors of modern times ; I suppose he has collectad 

 some 8,000 species in Western China. He told me it 

 was simply due to his surpoiise that I courteously 

 answered a le.tter from a stranger. No love of money 

 would tempt Dr. Henry to do what he has done out of 

 love of science. 



1295. I asked the question, because we have evidence 

 that the British Museum also acquires collections some- 

 times by purchase. Do you think that there has been 

 any disadvantage through competition arising between 

 the Royal Botanic Gardens and the British Museum 

 with regard to the expenditure of money for the purpose 

 of collections ? — ^Yes. There is a certain amount of com- 

 petition now and then. Of course they naturally 

 want to polish their own counter at South Kensington, 

 and I think they are a little sharp sometimes in snap- 

 ping up things. 



1296. But froan the point of view of the public purse, 

 thait is insignificant ? — ^I should think so. Of course, I do 

 not know, as I have no facts to go upon. I have drawn 

 the attention of the Committee to one quesitdon that eaime 



