148 



Appendix I : 



Kear- 



Admiral 



G. H. 



Richards, 



C.B., F.R.S. 



1872. 



Captain 

 D. GALTOK, 

 O.B., F.E.S. 



11.603. In this he has always been guided by the 

 opinion of the collector himself, or on consultation with 

 qualified men, or in cases, where there is no naturalist, 

 he has acted on his own judgment, and sent them to 

 " Professors Owen, or Huxley, or Hooker, or others, as I 

 think the case may require." 



11.604. The collections which were recently made in 

 the Straits of Magellan were mostly sent to the '■ British 

 Museum, some were sent to Professor Newton, at Cam- 

 bridge, and a few were sent to Professor Huxley, and 

 the botanical collections were sent to Dr. Hooker at Kew. 

 11,605-06. About 27 boxes were sent to the British 

 Museum, some with birds, zoological specimens, botanical 

 specimens, and some fossils and human crania ffom Pata- 

 gonia. 11,607. The division was made "on the recom- 

 mendation of Dr. Cunningham, who was the naturalist," 

 and his wishes were followed. "He had been in com- 

 munication with the societies before he went ourt, and 

 he ascertained what would be most useful to each . . . 



* * 44- * * * 



11,611. We were not bound to send them to the British 

 Museum, or to any particular place ; we take the best 

 advice, and have no interest, but that the collections shall 

 be turned to the best account." (p. 180.) 



Captain Douglas Gallton, C.B., F.R.S., in the course 

 of his examination, stated : — 



12,987. As instances of mischief that have been 

 occasioned by the want of system in the present arrange- 

 ments, " I tiiink that there" is a great waste of force, as 

 you get a duplication of functions ; for instance, take the 

 case of the British Museum and 'South Kensington, it 

 seems to me that each of those departments, to_ some 

 extent, overlaps the other; but South Kensington 

 started a certain museum of what it calls " economic pro- 

 ducts," which appertain very much to what should be 

 exhibited at Kew, if it is to be a complete _ botanic 

 garden or department of that class of science. Similarly, 

 at Kew, to some extent, it has collections of dried plants 

 which trench upon the collections at the British Museum, 

 or the British Museum collection trenches upon that_ of 

 Kew. I do not wisii to lay down any law as to which 

 part should be made the focus of the whole, but I think 

 it is undesirable for the GoVemment to have two separate 

 esta.blishments forming the same collections. Of course, 

 it would be a question whether you should detach your 

 botanical specimens from the British Museum to Kew, 

 or whether you should bring those from Kew to the 

 British Museum, and connect them with your_ fossil 

 botany ... it is quite clear, I think, that it is a 

 waste' of force to have the duplication which at present 

 prevails. There is no possible means of laying down 

 any rule upon the subject by any proper authority unless 

 you constitute a commission to lay down what are to be 

 the limits of the spheres of the different Museums. . . 

 ****** 



13.005. A disadvantage of the present system is that 

 in the cases of the herbaria at Kew, South Kensington, 

 and the British Museum there is a considerable amount 

 of overlapping. "At Soufli Kensington they have a 

 museum of economic products which appears to be one 

 which would verv properly belong to a department like 

 that of the Kew Botanical Gardens. The collection of 

 dried plants at Kew and the collection of dried plants 

 at the'British Museum run side bv side, as it were, to 

 some extent, or are similar, and I think that one such 



collection would probably suffice if both departments were 

 under the s^ame administration." 



13.006. An opinion has been expressed before us by 

 more than one witness, that it was desirable that there 



should be collections of dried plants, both at Kew and 

 in connection with the collection at present in the 

 British Museum, arranged according to different systems, 

 the one being more complete as a collection for scien- 

 tific botanv, \nd the other to be used rather in con- 

 nection with paleontology ; if there are two collections 

 arranged on different systems, must there not necessarily 

 be a° considerable amount of overlapping in the sense 

 that the same kind of specimens will be found in both 

 Museums?— No doubt, and it would be the function of 

 such a council to arrange far the limits of each dass of 

 collection. 



13.007. I do not object to overlapping " in that sense 

 certainly, only overlapping in the sense of a similar col- 

 lection in two places." 



13.008. (Professor n-Mxloy.) Mr. Carruthers, the 

 Keeper of the botanical collection at the British Museum. 

 in his evidence given before us, tells us first that there is 

 no connection ba-^'^'spn the two collections, the one at 



C.B., F.R.S. 

 1S72 



the British Museum and the other at Kew ; secondly, captain 

 that he does not see upon the face of it any reason for D. Galtoh, 

 any connection being established between the two col- 

 lections ; and thirdly, in reply to the question, " Do you 

 think that the nation derives advantage from possessing 

 those two collections independent of one another ? " he 

 says, "I believe the nation does." And then, at a sub- 

 sequent part of liis evidence, in reply to a question of 

 mine. No. 7743, " Is it your opinion that the two her- 

 baria should be equally perfect and equally complete 

 without any relation the one to the other 1 " Mr. Car- 

 ruthers says, "It is my opinion that it is absolutely 

 necessary for the gardens at Kew to have a herbarium 

 for naming the plants, as Dr. Hooker clearly puts it. 

 It is also my distinct conviction that a herbarium for the 

 study of systematic .botany has no connection whatever 

 with a botanical garden. It ought to be in a position 

 where it can be most freely consulted by all students 

 of botanical science, and there is sufficient evidence that 

 London is the best situation for such a herbarium." In 

 other words, the whole tenor of Mr. Carruthers' 

 evidence, to which I am now referring, is to the effect 

 that there ought to be two distinct herbaria, one at Kew 

 and the other at the British Museum ; and that neither 

 institution could do its work properly without having 

 such herbaria ; and that also is the general tendency 

 of Mr. Ball's evidence, and I think I may say of aU the 

 evidence upon this subject that we have had before us. 

 The only matter in which the different witnesses differ 

 is as to the proportion which the herbarium in one place 

 should bear to the herbarium in the other ; but upon 

 the point of having two herbaria all the practical 

 botanists whom we have consulted are unanimous ; that 

 being the case, do you think it is quite certain that a 

 wise government managing those matters would not 

 have admitted the duplication of those two esta'blish- 

 ments ? — What I want is to have a scientific council which 

 should be ajble to advise the Government as to what 

 should be the limits of the spheres of the different 

 departments, as, for instance, in the case of these her- 

 baria, what should be the functions and the mode of 

 classification in one herbarium as compared with the 

 functions and mode of classification in the other. My 

 argument is aU adduced to show that the Government 

 requires some scientific permanent council to advise it 

 on those matters, and to lay down what shall be the 

 functions. 



13.009. I understand that you have a distinct opinion 

 that Kew has nothing probably to do with an herba- 

 rium ? — ^I did not say that Kew had nothing to do with 

 an herbarium, but not with an herbarium of the same 

 nature as that at the British Museum. 



13.010. Ton, I know, are very much interested in 

 science, and pay great attention to many parts of it ; 

 if you have chanced to pay attention to systematic 

 botany or zoology, you would be aware that in the 

 proper naming of a plant or an animal it is necessary to 

 have a complete systematic collection of plants and 

 animals, and that it is utterly impossible to undertake 

 to name properly either animals or plants without 

 having a complete systematic collection to refer to ? — 

 My argument is adduced merely to try to show that I 

 think that the Government want scientific advice, and 

 very constant advice upon that class of questions. 



13.011. You do not wish to state to the Commission 

 that in your judgment either the one institution or the 

 other should be deprived of an herbarium, even 

 although that herbarium must be, by the necessities of 

 the case, a duplicate of the other, because two complete 

 collections of plants cannot be different things, they 

 must be duplicates ? — They may be classified differently. 



13.012. Tour objection is not to the existence of a 

 complete collection of plants at each place ? — I do not 

 want here to enter into discussion with Mr. Carruthers, 

 Mr. Ball, or yourself, who have studied the thing 

 much more than I have done ; but my own prima facie 

 view was this, that there was a considerable loss of 

 force by having two collections, in different places 

 entering into competition with each other in adding to 

 their collections. I want the scientific department at 

 Kew and the natural history department of the British 

 Muse am brought under one governing body. 



13.013. Mr. Carruthers, in a document which he has 

 signed, and which forms part of the Appendix of our 

 published evidence, at page 46, makes this statement : 

 " The expense of the two herbaria is very small. I am 

 unacquainted with the amount granted for Kew her- 

 barium, but it cannot greatly differ from that required 

 by the national herbarium, which amounted for the 



