SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



IT 



3 March 1904.] 



Sir Thomas Elliott, k.c.b. 



[Contiroued. 



Lord Northhoume — continued. 



being ultimate extension, of course. One of 

 the factors that we are face to face with at the 

 present moment in this matter is the steady in- 

 crease in the price of fish, and our behef is 

 that if we could protect the small immature 

 fish the final result on the price of fish 

 would be entirely in the interests of the con- 

 sumers. 



115. Would you tell us what is the area of the 

 North Sea fishing ground for that fish ? — We 

 have here maps which would show what are 

 known as the eastern grounds; roughly they 

 run down the coast of Jutland, Schleswig and 

 Holstein ; they adjoin the eastern shores of 

 the southern part of the North Sea. 



116. In square miles do you know what the 

 area is? — I think the area is about 150 miles 

 long by about 40 or 50 miles broad. 



117. Reverting to those other questions T 

 asked you, I have been asked to ask you 

 whether there has been any opposition on the 



Eart of consumers to the previous BiUs that 

 ave been produced ? — I am not aware of any 

 at all. I think that representatives of the 

 smaller fishermen, who were somewhat alarmed 

 at the measure, said that the consumers would 

 be detrimentally aifected ; but I do not think 

 that the consumers themselves made any 

 representations. 



118. The representations came more from the 

 small fishermen ?^Yes. 



119. Are those a class of fishermen who you 

 think, as compared with deep sea fishermen, 

 appreciably affect the general supply of fish food 

 to the country ? — T think their interest is an 

 important one, and ought to be carefully con- 

 sidered ; but, certainly, so far as regards the 

 eastern grounds of the North Sea, it is not 

 necessary to place them under regulations or 

 restrictions ot all. 



120. Now, supposing this legislation was 

 carried into effect, and that you had a fleet of 

 trawlers from some north-eastern port in Eng- 

 land, and that they were prohibited from either 

 the landing or sale of these undersized fish, 

 what would prevent that fleet of trawlers coming 

 out of Dutch or German ports and clearing the 

 ground, and selling the fish in Germany or in 

 Holland ? — In the first instance the Dutch and 

 the Danes have not any considerable number of 

 steam trawlers, as I shall be able to show from 

 the figures that have been submitted to your 

 Lordships ; and, in the second instance, I think 

 there is a general disposition on the part of the 

 fishing interests in those countries to follow our 

 lead in the matter. What your Lordship points 

 to is a possibility on paper, but I do not thmk it 

 will work out so in practice. 



121. But is there any legislation at the present 

 time in existence, either in Holland or in Ger- 

 many, which prevents the sale of these under- 

 sized fish ? — There is legislation in both these 

 countries, the particulars ol which will appear 

 in the papers which I submit to your Lord- 

 ships, 



122. And which legislation does not exist in 

 England ? — It does not exist in England. 



0.10.) 



Lord Tweedmouth 



123. But that idea of yours of foreign trawler 

 hardly tallies with our experience in the Moray 

 Firth. In the Moray Firth, which is closed to 

 British trawlers, we find an enormous number 

 of trawlers come and fish. If you exclude your 

 British trawlers by these regulations from the 

 eastern grounds of the North Sea, you will find 

 the foreign trawler come in there, just as he 

 comes to the Moray Firth, which is closed 

 to British trawlers? — My great hope is that 

 if this country takes the lead in the matter, 

 we shall be able to influence foreign Govern- 

 ments, who, I think, show a disposition to be 

 influenced in this matter, and that we may get 

 what is a matter of common concern put on a 

 sound footing. 



124. But that exactly works round to my 

 original position — that it is necessary to have 

 some convention or agreement with the foreign 

 Powers ?— I think we are more likely to get that 

 convention with foreign Powers if we take 

 action in this direction, than in any other 

 way. 



Marquess of Hnntly. 



125. I put that question to you, and I under- 

 stood you to say that the result of the present 

 conference was favourable to the idea of foreign, 

 countries taking that view ?— -That is so, and in 

 favour of the experimental action that we pro- 

 pose on this Bill. 



Chairman. ■ 



126. But there are obviously only two markets 

 for undersized flat fish caught by those foreign 

 vessels, one in this country, and one in their own 

 country. By Order of the Board you could pre- 

 vent the landing of any undersized flat fish from 

 any foreign vessels, and thereby close these 

 markets to them ? — That is so. 



127. Then, as regards their own markets, most 

 of the countries have already a size limit, have 

 they not ? — Yes. 



128. And, as a matter of fact, the consumption 

 of small fish is looked upon with very much less 

 favour by Continental nations than it is in Eng- 

 land ? — That is so. 



129. Therefore, practically, the only large mar- 

 ket for undersized fish is in England ? — Y%s. 



130. And that you could close to foreign 

 vessels ? — That we should, of course, close to 

 foreign vessels. 



Duke of Ahercorn, 



131. Then in that case it would not be to the 

 advantage of an English trawler, supposing he 

 had the means of doing so, to transfer his small 

 fish in the open sea to a foreign trawler ?— I do 

 not think there is any practical danger of that, 

 because, as his Lordship in the Chair has 

 pointed out, our market is much the largest 

 market of all, and we should be able to stop the 

 landing of the small fish by the foreign trawler 

 in this country. 

 B 2 132 How 



