SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



17 



3 March 1904.J 



Mr. Walter Archer. 



[Continued. 



Lord Tweedmouth — continued. 



place, submit that a quantity of good food would 

 not be thrown away ; I have shown that small 

 plaice of 10 inches in length, weigh only 

 4| ounces, and therefore the amount of meat 

 to be found on such a plaice of that size must 

 be very small indeed. In the second place, 

 if small plaice form such a small proportion of 

 fish caught over a large portion of the North 

 Sea, there would be no very great waste. I 

 hope we should in the first place only deal just 

 with those particular areas m which we know 

 small plaice form the great bulk of the catch, 

 and by prohibiting the landing of such fish 

 prevent the vessels from going on to those 

 rounds. 



218. That comes back to my first proposition, 

 that it is much simpler to deal with an area 

 rather than with the fish brought in. You 

 localise the position of these small plaice, and, I 

 think, quite rightly. Then, I say, surely it is 

 better to deal with the area rather than with the 

 fisherman, and not directly with the fisherman, 

 but through the particular sort of fish he is 

 going to catch You are not proposing to pro- 

 hibit the fisherman from going there if he 

 chooses ? — We think that it would be almost 

 impossible to police such a large area as 

 that. 



219; But it is only for four months in the 

 year ? — Yes. Then, further, the other nations 

 have fishermen who are dependent on catch- 

 ing a small quantity ot these fish, and in 

 any regulations we make with them I take it 

 that probably v^'e shall have to consider the 

 interests of their small fishermen in the same way 

 that we shall have to ask them to consider those 

 of ours. 



220. Still it would be possible to say that 

 your big trawlers were not to go on to that 

 ground at certain periods of the year ? — Yes, but 

 176 think it would be difficult to enforce. 



Marquess of Huntly. 



221. But we have no right to say that ; it is 

 not our water; we have no right to say to 

 trawlers that they are not to go there, unless it 

 is under the North Sea Convention ? — I think 

 Parliament could have made a law prohibiting 

 our trawlers from going there. Trawlers sail 

 under the British flag in the Moray Firth for 

 instance. 



222. Is this within territorial waters ? — No. 

 but the Moray Firth is not within territorial 

 waters either. 



223. As I understand it, all we could do would 

 be to make regulations as to the landing of fish 

 brought by our own vessels under the British 

 flag ; we could not make regulations or pass an 

 Act dealing with seas which are not within the 

 territorial limits of England except by a special 

 Act ? — Are you referring to Orders made under 

 this Bill ? 



224 Or to any Orders given to our trawlers — 

 to any regulation ? — An Act of Parliament 

 would no doubt be necessary in order to restrict 

 (0.10.) 



Marquess of Huntly — continued. 



our trawlers in any way, but I take it that 

 an Act of Parliament could prohibit our trawlers 

 fishing in any waters, and I instance as a case 

 in point the Moray Firth, which contains I fancy 

 an area something like 2,000 square miles, the 

 greater part of which is outside territorial waters 

 and is therefore free to all nations. 



225. But that is adjacent to our own coast. 

 That is a different thing to waters adjacent to a 

 foreign country ? — I should not have thought in 

 law that it would be held to be so ; but I am 

 not a lawyer. 



226. Then there is a further point. Surely 

 any regvilations that were made dealing with 

 vessels going to a particular part of the North 

 Sea would be subject to the convention of the 

 North Sea Convention ? — Yes. 



227. If France stands out as she does, there 

 will be no possibilit}' of getting all the countries 

 to agree ? — The North Sea Convention does 

 not restrict the places where vessels may 

 fish. 



228. But in the case of any regulations that 

 were imposed under the North Sea Convention, 

 each of the countries parties to the North Sea 

 Convention will have to assent to it ? — Yes, in 

 any convention. 



229. There would not lie much chance of get- 

 ting France to consent to any restriction ? — I do 

 not see any reason why France should not con- 

 sent, the same as these other powers would con- 

 sent, to experimental rfgulations with a view ot 

 seeing whether we cannot increase the produc- 

 tiveness of the fisheries. 



230. I am putting these questions really for 

 the reason of supporting the object of the Bill. 

 You think it would be better to proceed by ne- 

 gotiation experimentally, as proposed, rather 

 than attempting to bring all countries under the 

 same regulation dealing with the North Sea 

 Convention ? — I think you will see that this 

 resolution that was passed at the Conference 

 particularly provides that if this Bill becomes 

 law then the International Council consider it 

 desirable that other countries should take 

 powers to make experiments for restriction 

 of the destruction of undersized fish. They 

 make it a first condition that we should take 

 those steps. They consider that we have lagged 

 behind, and that we, as I think has been shown 

 by the figures I have put before you, n,re the 

 principal offenders. It is for us, therefore, to 

 take the initiative, and that if this Bill becomes 

 law then the resolution which has been passed 

 gives a distinct mandate from the International 

 Council to go to the foreign countries to ask 

 their co-operation in restricting the captui'e of 

 fish. 



231. There is one other point I want to ask 

 you about. By the diagrams you show that 

 even after the month of July there are a certain 

 number of these small plaice caught in the 

 yellow waters? — This chart shows that; because 

 it is divided into squares of a certain size, and 

 the sub-division of the eastern grounds comes 

 up the centre of the square in which small plaice 



C were 



