30 



MIN'UTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEX BEFORE THE 



^ March 1904] 



Pi-ofrssor I) Aecy \y. Thompsox, c.b. 



[Cantinued. 



Cli a i rma n — contiimeu. 



are vciy much less valuable than above it, or even 

 practically commercially worthless ; and I think 

 that, viz. 10 inches, is the size below which plaice 

 cease to be profitable in the wholesale market. 



505. Then, of course, there is also a question 

 wliich should not be lost sight of, and that is, 

 what would be the action of trawlers of other 

 countries supposing this size hmit were imposed. 

 I think there is a size limit, is there not, in 

 many foreign countries ? — There is. 



506. In Denmark ? — In Denmark the size is 

 approximate^ 10 inches. 



507. Therefore if a size hmit of 10 inches 

 were fixed in England, all fish over that could 

 be sold in England just as well as they could be 

 in Denmark, and there would be no temptation 

 to take them to Denmark ? — Certainly. I may 

 say that in Germany the present size limit is 

 considerably smaller, as it also is in Belgium. 



508. But was your experience at the Con- 

 ference that there was an inclination to raise the 

 size limit if England were to set the examj^le ? — 

 Yes, I think on the whole I may sa}- so. 



509. I beheve as the last witness said, the 

 question is not a very pressing one in Scotland ? 

 — No, not at all pressing in regard to plaice. 



510. There is not a large demand for small 

 fish ? — In the first place our trawlers do not 

 frequent the Eastern gTounds where these 

 small fish are especially abundant ; in the 

 second place they are excluded from the shal- 

 low waters on our OAvn coast where they occur ; 

 and in the third place it does not pay to sell in the 

 Aberdeen market or to send from Aberdeen to 

 England fish of that size. We have no market 

 in Aberdeen for plaice under 10 inches. 



511. There are small fish of other kinds sold, 

 are there not — round fish — in Scotland ? — A 

 gi-eat quantity. There are, of course, also a few 

 plaice, but very few. I obtained yesterday in 

 the market two lots of plaice about 10 inches, 

 but there were probably not above one or two 

 stone of such fish in the market out of four or 

 five tons of plaice. 



512. There are small haddocks sold in T; cot- 

 land, are there not ? — Yes ; v.-e have, unfor- 

 tunately, a very large number of small haddock, 

 of which a great quantity are wasted. We have 

 had this year a very exceptional number — 

 quite a glut of small haddock. I have here the 

 statistics of the numbers that have been sent in 

 recent months to the manure works. 



513. Can you give us the quantity ? — Of 

 haddock (or mostly haddock), in May, 240 cwts. ; 

 in June, 1,598 cwts. ; in July, 2,479 cwts. A total 

 from May to November of 8,000 cwts. were 

 destro3'ed as worthless. 



514. Have any proposals been made to deal 

 with undersized round fish as well as undersized 

 flat fish ? — There have been no proposals that I 

 am aware of in the way of legislation. 



515. Perhaps there has not been the same 

 diminution in the numbers, or rather I should 

 sav the same belief that there is a diminution 

 in the numbers of round fish ;\s there is of a 

 diminution in the numbers of flat fish ? — Xot to 

 the same extent. And I, for my own part, see 

 no evidence of diminution of round fish ; but, 

 on the other hand, the salesmen are quite alive 

 to the fact that this great glut of small haddocks. 



Chaivma n — continued, 

 if not disastrous to the fishings, is disastrous to 

 the market. It lowers prices all round, and has 

 done a great deal of injmy, especially this 

 year, when the}' have been unusually abundant. 



516. Would that be equaUj- apphc9.ble in a 

 market where there was a large quantit}' of 

 small flat fish ?-I believe so. I am pretty sure of it. 



517. It is very difiicult, I know, to arrive at anj- 

 sound conclusion, but can you at all say how tar 

 the general assertion that our fisheries are being 

 depleted is correct ? — It is exceedingh" hard to 

 get at statistical evidence to that effect. On the 

 whole I think it impossible to ansAver the ques- 

 tion ; it is a question that should be divided into 

 specific queries in regard to each particular fish. 

 There are some in which the evidence is more or 

 less strong ; there are others in regard to which 

 we have none at all. 



518. The number of trawlers has increased 

 very largely of recent years ? — Very largely. 



519. And the area trawled has increased ? — 

 Yes, immensely. 



520. And engines used have been more eflicient; . 

 the otter trawl is a more eificient instrument than 

 the beam trawl ? — The otter trawl is on the- 

 whole a more eflicient instrument, but not 

 necessarily more efficient for flat fish. 



521. What I rather meant was that under 

 those changed circumstances is it not very diffi- 

 cult to compare the catch to-dav with the catch 

 10, 15, or 20 years ago ? — It is exceedingly 

 difficult. 



522. Have you ever made any calculation as 

 to the quantities formerly caught b}' the old 

 sailing trawlers, and the increased capabihtv of 

 the steam trawlers ? — Xo, I have not studied 

 that question ; we have no sailing trawlers in 

 Scotland, at least, not on the East Coast. 



523. Not now, but you had, had you not ? — 

 Never to any extent. 



524. There were in England. Then it has 

 been stated that, supposing this BiU comes into 

 operation, the only effect will be that a large 

 number of fish which are now brought to land 

 and sold would, on account of their small size, 

 be thrown overboard, and ha^-ing been out of 

 the water for a long time, and choked with mud 

 and sand in the trawl net, they Avould simplv 

 be wasted, because mstead ot living to propagate 

 their species or grow larger, they would all' die 

 and foul the ground at the bottom of the sea. 

 Is that your opinion ? — There, again, there is an 

 immense difterence between one fish and 

 another. I believe if there be one fish that can 

 be throAvn overboard Avithout injury, that one fish 

 comes aboard the trawler uninjured and may be 

 tin-own out again with a fair chance of its'sur- 

 vival. it is the plaice. It is a fish of exceptional 

 vitality. 



525. Have you ever made any practical ex- 

 periments to demonstrate that ? — Yes, we have 

 made some. There Avere some made by the 

 Scottisli Fishery Board imder Dr. Fulton's 

 supervision in the year 1890, with some inte- 

 resting results. 



526. Can you say what those results were ? — 

 It AA-as found on that occasion that after trawling 

 on an average for the usual length ot time during 

 which the commercial traAvl is kept doAvn, saA', 

 from three to fom* hours, of the round fis# about 



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