34 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



4 March 1904.] 



Professor D'Arcy W. Thompson, c b. 



[Continued. 



Lord Heneage — continued. 



rake any steps until England does ; is not 

 that so ? — Germany does so far prohibit the 

 landing of plaice of 18 centimetres, as I have 

 already said; but that is a very sm.ill limit 

 indeed. 



Lord Tweedmoidh. 



586. You have had great opportunities oi 

 judging about the number of fish ? — I have done 

 my best. 



587. I should like very much to know what 

 exactly your own opinion is with regard to the 

 diminution in the supply of soles ? — With regard 

 to soles I have no personal experience, for the 

 simple reason that we only brmg a few dozen 

 fish into Aberdeen in the course of the year ; 

 but I cannot resist the general impression 

 caused by English testimony, that soles are 

 diminishing or have diminished ; but we must 

 remember that the sole is an extremely peculiar 

 fish ; its rate of increase is apparently small — 

 and its area of distribution in our seas is also 

 exceedingly small. 



588. Then as to turbot and brill, have you 

 any opinion with regard to them ? — No, I have 

 no definite opinion. 



589. But you have no evidence before you 

 that the supply has diminished ? — I should not 

 like to say that we have scientific evidence, but 

 T should be quite prepared to admit that the 

 supply of turbot was diminished — that it was 

 difficult to keep up the supply of turbot. 



590. And now as regards plaice, what have 

 vou to say ?— As regards plaice, we begin to get 

 into the region of difficulty. I have here a 

 chart which shows the catches of plaice year by 

 year, fi-om the year 1886 to the present time, hi 

 "the neighbourhood of the Isle of May, by the 

 Granton trawlers ; and when we look at this 

 chart we see that the fluctuations are so great 

 and so numerous, that although some of the 

 recent years have been bad, it would be very 

 hard to find evidence of a real diminution. The 

 first years were certainly the best, but they were 

 the first 3'ears of trawling in that neighbour- 

 hood. 



591. Is that fi-om the results of commercial 

 trawlers ? — This is from a fleet of from six to 

 nine commercial trawlers working steadily on 

 the same groimds for the last 18 years. 



592. And the result of then* working is, that 

 you do not think you can honestly say there has 

 been any great sign of diminution ? — Not to 

 what one would call a serious or certainly proved 

 extent. In every one of the more abundant fish 

 that we deal with in the north, in haddocks and 

 in plaice and in all the rest, we frequently find 

 apparent evidences of considerable diminution 

 for several years, and then the catches go up again 

 and ■ belie our statistics. We have so many 

 fluctuations to deal with that it is exceedingly 

 hard to give a simple answer to a general 

 question. 



593. Then it really amounts to this, that so 

 far as plaice are concerned, from your actual 

 experience, you would not like to say they have 

 diminished ? — I believe the larger plaice are 

 certainly fewer — that we skim ott the larger 

 plaice ; but that there is an abundant reproduc- 

 tive supply still in the sea is undoubted. 



Lord Tweedmo ath — continued. 



594. But without having so much experience- 

 of them, you are inclined to think that both 

 soles, turbot, and brill have to some extent 

 diminished? — Soles and turbot I shoidd think 

 have. 



595. A\'liat would be your idea of the cause of 

 the diminution in soles and turbot ? — I think in 

 that particular case, we are dealing in the outset 

 with a vastly smaller stock, a stock upon which 

 our own work may produce an appreciable differ- 

 ence, whereas on the great mass of these more- 

 abundant fish it does not for a much longer time., 



596. You differ from the opinion that Pro- 

 fessor Huxley used to hold, which was that no 

 effort of man could really make any impression 

 on the supply of fish in the sea ? — I have pretty 

 well come round to that opinion in regard to all 

 the ordinary food fishes with which we deal in 

 the north. I admit, however, as I have done,, 

 that the case of soles in particular is exceptional 

 — that, perhaps, from slow normal rate of increase,, 

 fi-om narrow area of distribution, and the 

 enormous attack upon them, they probably have 

 shown signs of diminution. Moreover, the sole- 

 is a southern fish, and though common on our 

 own south and west coasts, it comes only a little- 

 way into the North Sea and appears to be there, 

 so to speak, at the end of its tether. 



597. Could you suggest to us any means by 

 which that diminution could be checked, a- 

 diminution which you think is due to the work 

 of man. How could man encourage the increase 

 in the number of soles ? — I know of no feasible 

 method except the restriction of capture, that- 

 is to say, the imposition of a size limit. 



598. Then really you think the imposition of 

 a size limit for soles is more necessary than it ia- 

 for plaice ? — A.fter all, soles have become of the- 

 nature of a luxury, whereas plaice are a very 

 important matter in the food oi the people, even 

 in this country, and still more abroad. 



599. Do you think the imposition of a size- 

 limit on plaice for a certain number of months 

 in the year would result in a great increase in 

 the supply of plaice ? — That is entirely in the 

 nature of an experiment; one approaches the 

 experiment with an open mind, and one hopes- 

 that that would be the result. I have no idea in. 

 my mind as to how soon we should look for that 

 result. That so many hundreds or thousands 

 of tons of fish are going to waste, fish that might 

 be left to grow is clear enough ; and that somehow 

 and somewhere these fish would be caught when 

 they were grown is an obvious hope and obvious 

 prospect. That fish would be more numerous in 

 the sea I am not prepared to say, but that we 

 should catch a certain proportion of larger fish 

 where now we catch smaller ones is plainly to 

 be looked for. 



600. I should like to ask you, then, do you 

 not think that it would be better rather at 

 certain seasons of the year to prohibit fishing on 

 grounds where you know that there is a quantity 

 of small fish altogether, than attempt to deal 

 with this matter by imposmg a size limit on fish 

 generally ?— That might be, but that seems to 

 me to be of the nature of a counsel of perfection. 

 It is exceedingly difficult to close a great area 

 of the open sea. I do not see how it can be done 

 except by a system of policing, and that i*a very 



serious 



