4-1 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



4 March 1904.J 



Dr. Wemyss Fulton. 



[Contimied. 



Cha irman — continued 

 them before me — I think it is quite certain that 

 the supply of flat fish in proportion to the means 

 of capture has fallen off. 



754. Notwithstanding the fact that the 

 apparent numbers landed do not show a j^eat 

 falling off? — Yes. 



755. Therefore the statistics must be examined 

 in connection with the wider area of fish, the 

 gi-eater number of vessels fishing and the greate, 

 catching power of the engines employed ? — Yes 

 and the place of capture. 



756. You have read the Bill, no doubt ? — Yes, 

 I have read the Bill. 



7-57. And you srather from it that the object 

 is to protect, as far as possible, these eastern 

 grounds from depletion ? Two plans have been 

 suggested: one, that which is contemplated in 

 the Bill; and the other, that the area should be 

 prohibited. Do you think it would be prac- 

 ticable to prohibit the area to our trawlers ? — It 

 would be a question of police supervision, but if 

 it were practicable, I think that would be 

 preferable. 



758. You experience some difficulty now, do 

 you not, in policing your own waters ? — There 

 is some difficulty. 



759. And do you think there would be greater 

 difficulty in policing these large areas off the 

 coasts of other Powers ? — Yes, there would be 

 greater difficulties. 



760. I take it that in Scotland there would be 

 some objection to prohibiting the sale of under- 

 sized fish caught round your coasts ? I do not 

 mean within the three-miles hmit, but just 

 outside ? — There might be in the smaller places, 

 but I think at Aberdeen the quantity, of plaice, 

 for example, that would be affected by a 

 moderate-sized limit would be very small ; they 

 do not get a great proportion of small fish in the 

 north. 



761. If it was a penal offence to have in your 

 possession and for sale these small fish, might 

 not that work hardship upon small dealers ? 

 — Yes, it might. 



762. And you think there would be less objec- 

 tion to a prohibition on the landing of fish 

 than on the sale of fish ? — I am not quite 

 sure as to that. 



763. Have you formed any views as to what 

 should be the hmits of the size of the fi.sh ? — I 

 think that is a question that might be left to the 

 different departments. I think it is one of 

 the best features of the Bill, that a hard-and-fast 

 limit is not laid down in it to apply generally 

 everywhere, but that discretion is left to the 

 different departments to fix the hmit. 



764. And much might depend, might it not, 

 on the place where the fish were caught ? — 

 Yes. 



765. Probably a high limit that would be 

 fairly apphcable to the eastern grounds might 

 work considerable hardship if applied to the 

 smaller nurseries off the coast of Scotland ? — 

 Yes. The flat fish on the coast of Scotland are 

 rather larger in proportion ; I mean the size at 

 maturity is rather larger. A hmit that would 

 apply to the east coast of Scotland would not 

 really apply to the south coast ; it would be a 

 greater hardship to the south coast. 



766. Generally vou think the fishing iniustr;,- 



C/iairma?i— continued 



of Scotland would wish that any Orders made 

 under the Bill should interfere as httle as pos- 

 sible Avith the fishing industry and with the 

 smallest number of boats fishing ? — Just so. 



767. A question was raised, by one of the 

 witnesses, I think, whether it would not be pos- 

 sible to arrive at the object which is desired by 

 limiting or increasing the size of the mesh. Do 

 you think that would have any effect in stopping 

 the capture of undersized fish ? — In the case of 

 trawling there is this great difficulty. The trawl 

 captures aU kinds of fish, and these fish differ 

 very greatly in size, the immature and mature, 

 according to the species ; and unless there was 

 some predominant fish on the grounds I think 

 it would be impossible to regulate the mesh of 

 the net in that way to make it effective. You 

 might regulate the mesh for, say, haddocks, 

 and that would capture immature plaice ; or 

 for plaice, and that would allow the haddocks to 

 escape. 



768. Therefore you do not think that any 

 change in the size of the mesh would effect the 

 object that the BUI is designed to meet ? — I 

 should like to have particular information as to 

 the proportion of fish of the different kinds fi-om 

 this ground. I understand that there are two 

 species, soles as well as plaice, that take the 

 trawlers there. In that case I do not think the 

 regulation of the mesh would meet the 

 difficulty. 



769. But would it not be necessary to have 

 different nets for fishiif^ different grounds ? 

 —Yes. 



770. Would not that be a very great increase 

 in the expense of the work ? — Yes, and it would 

 scarcely be practicable. 



771. You observe the classes of flat fish which 

 are mentioned in the Bill. Do you think that 

 that covers the whole of the flat fish which it is 

 desirable to protect ? — I think it does at present. 

 But in the course of a few years it might be 

 desirable to establish a size Hmit for some other 

 species. I thought that you might include, say, 

 " other flat fish " ; I mean the clause might be 

 amended to that extent. 



772. There are some flat fish, are there not, 

 which are very smaU bvit never grow larger than 

 that veiT small size ? — Yes, I have some here. 



773. Do you think there would be an 

 advantage in protecting fully-grown small fish, 

 even though very small ? — No, I think not. 



774. Take a dab, for instance ? — No, I think 

 there is no advantage in that. This, for example 

 (prodwcvn{j a very tiny fisJi), is a flat fish, and it 

 is a mature fiat fish. 



Duke of Abercorrt. 



lib. What is the name of that? — It is the 

 little or yellow sole. This is a fish that goes 

 through the ordinary mesh very readily. 



Lord Ncyrthbov.rne. 

 776. Wh&t do you mean by a mature fish ? — 

 A fish that has developed reproductive organs is 

 a mature fish. 



Duke of Ahercora. 



111. How do you know that is a mature fish ? 

 — L has developed eggs. I dissected thpa out. 



778. Where 



