MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



4 March 1904.] 



Tr. Wemyss Fulton, 



[ContiTmted. 



Lord Tweedmouth — contiijued. 



fish would hare the effect of increasing the sup- 

 ply of fish in Scotland ? — No, I do not think so. 

 1 think the Bill has very little application to 

 Scotland. 



804. You think so far as Scotland is con- 

 cerned it reaUy does not matter ? — Or it matters 

 to a slight extent. 



Earl of Yarhorough. 



805. We have been told that very few small 

 flat fish go into Aberdeen — under 20 tons in the 

 year ? — Yes. 



806. Why is that ?— The Aberdeen -trawlers 

 fish in deeper water. The southern part of the 

 North Sea is very shallow, and it is there that 

 the small fish accumulate. In Scotland the 

 small fish are in the bays, which are closed to 

 trawling, that is where, but out in deep water, 

 you get very few of these small fish. 



Lord Heneage. 



807. You said just now that the information 

 was to a certain extent limited with regard to 

 fish ; but do you see any reason why we should 

 not have legislation pending further investiga- 

 tion ?— No. 



808. Do you see any objection to legislation, 

 at the present moment ? — No, I see no objection, 

 because this Bill is not compulsory. It does not 

 fix the size, and it leaves both discretion and 

 time to tne different departments to investigate 

 the matter and get full information. 



809. And do you think it is a great advan- 

 tage that there should be discretion, trusting to 

 the Board not to differentiate between vessels so 

 as to injure, say, steam trawlers to the advantage 

 of sailing vessels ? — Yes, I think it is one of 

 the good points of the Bill that it leaves that 

 power. 



810. Then, with regard to different sizes. Lord 

 Tweedmouth asked you with regard to Scotland ; 

 but I would ask you with regard to the North 

 Sea, how is it possible to differentiate the sizes of 

 fish in various parts of the North Sea ? How 

 could you tell possibly what part of the North 

 Sea the boats had caught the fish in ? — You 

 mean in connection with fixing a legal mini- 

 mum size ? 



811. I understood you to say just now that 

 for different points of the North Sea of England 

 and Scotland there might be different prohibi- 

 tive sizes ? — Biologically, yes. 



812. Then, I put the question. When the 

 fleets go out to the North Sea, how are you to 

 tell what part in the North Sea they have got 

 this fish in ? — It would be very difficult indeed 

 to do that. 



813. I think that would entirely put an end 

 to those skippers' returns Mr. Doughty was so 



might be 

 you have 

 might be 



Lord Heneage — continued, 

 much in favour of The skippers would hardly 

 like to tell us when they had been wrong ? — 

 I see the diflficulty. Biologically, in order to 

 give protection to the species, the limit might 

 differ in different regions ; but from the 

 point of view of regulation, that 

 found a very great inconvenience, as 

 pointed out; and in that case it 

 necessary to have a uniform size. 



814. I suppose you agree with Mr. Doughty 

 that it would be a ver}' great advantage to get 

 these returns for the information of the Board 

 of Fisheries ? — Yes, a very great advantage. 



815. Therefore you would not like to do any- 

 thing to prevent their being obtained correctly 

 from the skippers ? — Xo. 



Lord Xorthhoxirne. 



816. If the supply of eggs in one of these 

 fish is so enormous as 200,000, what bearing 

 has that upon the destruction of a large 

 number of undersized fish. I mean to say the 

 supply from that fish in the ocean seems to be 

 so enormous, that you might almost destroy any 

 number of undersized fish and it would not have 

 any appreciable effect upon the whole supply ? — 

 Still, the fecundity is not the most important 

 thing ; the number of eggs produced is not the 

 most important thing. The really most important 

 part is the conditions to which the eggs and frv 

 are subjected after spawning and hatching. 



817. But supposing you have 200,000 eggs, 

 what number of fish would that produce ? — 

 Adult fish ? 



818. Yes, actual fish ? — On an average, the 

 real number ought to be about two fish. 



Duke of Abercwn. 



819. Out of 200,000 ?— Yes ; that is a 

 general principle. Otherwise, if you had a large 

 number you would have the sea being stocked 

 with that species. On the assumption that the 

 number of a species remains constant from year 

 to year, then it follows that a male and female 

 ought to give rise to a male and female. If 

 they gavi! rise to 50, saj-, then that species would 

 predominate in a few years. AU the rest are 

 destroj'ed at some stage in their existence. 



820. Are they destroyed by /erce naturce — by 

 birds ? —Yes, and storms, and so forth. 



821. And disease? — Yes, and especially by 

 other fishes. 



822. Then you think that out of, say, a pair 

 of soles or a pair of plaice, if they had 100,000 

 or 200,000 eggs, you would only get one more 

 pair ? — Yes, adult pair. 



The Witness is directed to withdraw 



After a short adjournment, 



Mr. JOHN WRENCH TOWSE is caUed in ; and Examined as follows :— 



Chairman. 



823. You are, I believe, clerk to the Fish- 

 mongers' Company ? — Yes. 



824. And have been for how long ? — 15 years. 



825. And you are also, are you not, honorary 



Chairman — continued. 



secretary of the National Fisheries Protection 

 Association, of which Lord Heneage is President ? 

 — Yes. 



82§ How 



