50 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



4 March 1904.] 



Mr. J. Wkench Towse. 



[Continued. 



Duke oi Ahercorn — continued. 



892. And you think it is a Bill drawn on the 

 lines that would be most efficacious in preventing 

 the destruction of undersized flat fish ? — I think 

 it is the best BiU I have seen drawn for a very 

 long time. 



893. I suppose from your knowledge you are 

 aware that an enormous number of these flat 

 fish are now destroyed ? — Yes. 



894. — Can you tell me of those which happen 

 not to be destroyed but are brought into the 

 various ports of London, for what purpose they 

 are used ? For instance, in London is there any 

 demand for these small fish as an article of 

 food ? — They are taken by the fried fish shops, 

 but e^en in that case there is no great demand 

 for them, and if they are too small they are 

 what is called married in batter and sold in 

 that way, but even the poor object to take 

 them. 



895. There is no flesh on them ? — No flesh on 

 them. 



896. Being 6 or 8 inches only there could not 

 be much to eat ofii'a flat fish cf that size ? — No. 



897. That being so, it would not interfere at 

 all with the consumption of food by the general 

 pnblic if there was a prohibition placed upon the 

 introduction of these fish into thi country ? — 

 Certainly not. 



898. In fact there would be a gain hereafter 

 if those fish which are now destroyed were 

 allowed to mature, and become a source of 

 breeding for the production of a larger amount 

 of fish of the same kind ? — That is the general 

 opinion, that given facilities they will grow, and 

 that there would be a greater return. 



Marquess of Huntly. 



899. You said that there was restrictive 

 legislation in France. I thought we had 

 evidence that there was no legislation ? — It 

 is not eftective. I think there is restrictive 

 legislation in France, but it is not effective. 



900. How far does it go, do you know ? — I do 

 not think really that there is much attention 

 paid to it ; it is rather a dead letter, I under- 

 stand. 



901. Then that is what we understood before, 

 but there is nothing like the limit there is in 

 Denmark of 9| inches ? — No. 



902. Supposing there was an international 

 convention amongst the North Sea Powers not 

 to use these eastern grounds during the breeding 

 season for smaU fish in the months of March, 

 April, May, June, and July, do you think France 

 would agree to that ? — If France agreed, I am 

 quite confident Germany would not. 



903. And you do not see any prospect of either 

 of those two countries joining an international 

 convention ? — Certainly not. I think it has 

 been stated publicly that Germany is not prepared 

 to enter into any international fishery agree- 

 ment. 



904. It would be rather risky, would it not, if 

 certain countries went into legislation to prevent 

 these fish being taken from these grounds or 

 landed, and then the other countries that did 

 not come into the convention went and used 

 these grounds ? — You see they are principally on 

 their o^^-n grounds as it were, and I think they 

 would rather wish to protect their own country. 



Marquess of Huntly — continued. 



905. But take France, is there not a danger of 

 the French trawlers going along these eastern 

 grounds and fishing there when the English 

 trawlers leave ? — There might be a slight danger, 

 but the proportion of trawlers is very small. 



906. You do not think there would be any 

 good in trying to get all the Powers to agree ? — 

 You might try. 



907 If you are not sanguine I am not. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



908. As a matter of fact, Denmark is the only 

 country that has got any real effective limita- 

 tion ? — Yes. 



909. In the other countries, even where there 

 are limitations, the size limit is so low that to all 

 intents and purposes it might just as well not 

 exist ? — Precisely. 



910. Does the Denmark limit include any 

 other fish except plaice ? — Yes. 



911. It includes all flat fish ?— Yes. 



912. You said that owing to the great benefits 

 that have arisen from the enforcement of the 

 Danish limit, they were about to raise the limit 

 to 10 inches ? — So I have been given to under- 

 stand. 



913. Which would mean really more than 

 that by 1^ inches, from the measurement being 

 from the snout to the root of the tail instead of 

 to the end of the tail ? — Yes. 



914. Can you at all tell us how that great 

 benefit was shown — what proof you have of the 

 benefit that has resulted from it in Denmark ? — 

 No, I cannot. I have not been told that, except 

 that they realise that there is a benefit. 



915. But you cannot tell us what ? That is 

 rather important. — No, I cannot, unfortunately. 



916. Then your company do seize an enor- 

 mous number of fish in the London market 

 every year — bad fish ? — Yes. 



917. Can you at all tell us what proportion 

 the undersized fish in that quantity bears to the 

 whole ? — I gave that in my evidence before the 

 Committee of 1900. You will find it at Ques- 

 tion 354. I was asked then : " Can you give us 

 those particulars you were about to give us 

 about the quantities you have dealt with ? " And 

 my answer was : " In 1893, there were 50 

 tons in June. In that month we seized 

 164 tons and in that is included this 50 tons of 

 undersized. Therefore, it is 30 per cent, of the 



?er 

 n 



whole of the amount seized. In May, ] 894, 

 there were 42 tons taken, or 35 per cent, of the 

 amount. In June, 1894, there were 27 tons, or 

 23 per cent., all plaice." 



918. One cannot go into great exactitude, but 

 speaking quite generally, would you think that 

 of the fish you seize as being bad in the market 

 nearly 30 per cent, is represented by undersized 

 fish ? — During those months,' May, June, July 

 and August. 



919. You do not find any great quantity of 

 undersized fish in the other portion of the 

 year ? — Not to such an extent ; the small fish 

 is principally in those months, May, June, July 

 and August. 



920. Does that arise at aU from the fact that 

 in those months, which are the hot months of 

 the year, the undersized fish gc^bad more 



quickly ? — 



