60 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFOBE THE 



IC March 1904.J 



Mr E. W. L. Holt. 



Me. ERNEST WILLIAM LYONS HOLT is called in ; and Examined as follows ; 



Chaii'Tnan. 



1098. You are Scientific Adviser to the 

 Fisheries Branch of the Department of Agri- 

 culture and Technical Instruction in Ireland, 

 are you not ? — Yes. 



1099. So far as the Irish fishery industry is 

 concerned, may I take it that after hearing the 

 ev-idence of Mr. Green, you concur in what he 

 said upon that point ? — Yes. 



1100. Then I need not take you over that, but 

 I think you have had considerable technical 

 experience, and have made considerable inquiries 

 into the fisheries in the North Sea during the 

 time when you were stationed at Grimsby under 

 the direction of the Marine Biological Associa- 

 tion ? — Yes. 



1101. That was some time ago, was it not ? — 

 From 18i)2 to 1894. 



1102. And since then have you also inquired 

 into the fishing industry off the south coast of 

 England ?— Yes, in 1897 and 1898. 



1103. ^Vas your experience prior to 1894 that 

 there was a diminution in the number of fish 

 caught in the North Sea ? — It appeared to me to 

 be the case, but I had had no means of judging, 

 except by the reports of fishermen and smack- 

 owners. I gathered that there had been a very 

 serious falling off within a period of about 30 

 years, but there were no statistics available for 

 checking such statements. 



1104. With regard to the size of the fish, 

 especially plaice, was the result of 3'our observa- 

 tions in the North Sea to lead you to suppose 

 that there were two species of plaice? — That 

 there was more than one race of plaice. There 

 was a large race, inhabiting the central parts 

 and northern parts of the North Sea, and I 

 understood that smaller races had been observed 

 in other parts. 



1105. MTiere are the smaller plaice mostly to 

 be found ? I mean the small race of plaice, not 

 the small size ? — There is a very distinct small 

 race inside the Baltic, but occasionally one hears 

 of it occurring, only in small quantities so far as 

 I know, inside the islands along the coasts of 

 Holland and Germany. Then I gather from Mr. 

 Cunningham's reports that a small race has been 

 located on the Enghsh coast so far north as 

 Lowestoft; but I have no knowledge of its 

 occurring in the central parts of the North 

 Sea. 



1106. What size does the small race of plaice 

 attain ? — I think the small race at Lowestoft 

 averages about 15 inches when it begins to 

 spawn, and is similar to the Southof England 

 plaice; but Mr. Cunningham, I see, is here, and 

 he can give you exact information on that 

 subject. 



HOT. What size does the larger race of plaice 

 attain ? — I made out that the usual size at which 

 a female spawned for the first time in the North 

 Sea was about 17 inches, and it grew ultimately 

 :o about 28 inches. 



Chairman — continued. 



1108. Now, you know what we have been call- 

 ing in this Committee the eastern grounds, do 

 you not, round HeUgoland ? — Yes 



1109. Is the race of plaice to be found there 

 the small race or the large race ? — So far as I 

 can make out from all the enquiries which I 

 made during the time that I was stationed at 

 Grimsby, and aU the fish I examined, the vast 

 majority, if not all the fish that formed the sub- 

 ject of that fishery, belong to the large race, and 

 go ultimately to populate the central parts of the 

 North Sea, where they are all of the large race. 



1110. Then, obviously, the aim of any depart- 

 ment or any body desiring to increase the supply 

 of sizeable plaice in the North Sea would be to 

 check their capture on these grounds, where you 

 say are mostly to be foimd the not fully grown 

 plaice of the larger race ? — It appeared to me 

 that an excessive destruction of the young fish 

 on those groimds might probably be one of the 

 causes for the depletion of the general supply of 

 plaice in the North Sea. 



1111. But would you direct your attention in 

 the first instance to protecting the smaller sizes 

 of the large race of plaice, rather than to pro- 

 tecting the smaller sizes of the small race of 

 plaice ? — Certainly. I think attention should be 

 devoted entirely to the larger race as being the 

 only one of importance, so far as my knowledge 

 goes, in the North Sea. 



1112. And from all the statistics that you 

 collected at Grimsby, did you satisfy yourself 

 as to the locality of these two races of plaice ? — 

 I have very little information about the occur- 

 ence of the small race in the North Sea, but I 

 am satisfied that the bulk of the fish landed 

 from what you term the eastern grounds belong 

 to the lawer race. 



1113. Is there not a season of the j-ear when 

 they are more plentiful on those eastern grounds 

 than at another ? — It is practically only worth 

 fishing them on those grounds from March to 

 October. 



1114. And therefore the protection of the 

 grounds during those months would tend to give 

 a material increase in the size of the fish in the 

 North Sea ? — I should say that that would be 

 the result. 



1115. They begin then to leave these eastern 

 grounds and to come into the deeper waters. 

 Would they be caught in the deeper waters later 

 in the season ? — After the season at which they 

 are very plentiful on the eastern grounds, 

 towards the beginning of the autumn they 

 appear on grounds between the eastern grounds 

 and the Dogger, on a place called the Back of the 

 Scruff and various other names. You find, at that 

 season only, large quantities of plaice corre- 

 sponding in size to the larger of the small fellows 

 which were on the eastern grounds before ; and 

 it appears fairly evident that they are fish leaving 

 the eastern grounds for the central gjounds. In 



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