62 



MINtTTES-OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



10 March 1904.] 



Mr. E. W. L. Holt. 



[Ccmtiiiued. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



1135. You said that you would be in favour o^ 

 confining these regulations solely to vessels that 

 fish on the eastern grounds ? — Yes. 



1836. How would you propose to do that ? — 

 I think it could be done by confining the 

 regulations to steam trawlers or trawlers of a 

 certain tonnage, because no other boat could get 

 there, and these boats could not get small fish 

 in quantities anywhere else. 



1137. In fact you would apply it only to 

 vessels of a ce-rtain tonnage probably? — Yes, 

 that would probably meet the case. I should 

 say that I have not very greatly considered the 

 matter. 



1138. Ha^ve•you ever considered the difficulty 

 that would arise from the fact that vessels below 

 that tonnage would be able to land, fish of exactly 

 the same size as the bigger vessels ? — Yes, but 

 so far as I know there is no ground where they 

 could catch small fish in such quantities as to 

 be of material importance. 



1139. You agree that in Ireland, off the Irish 

 Coast at any rate, no damage has been done by 

 the destruction of undersized fish either by Irish 

 trawlers or by trawlers fishing from Great Britain? 

 — We have no large nurseries of smaU flat fish 

 on our grounds, and no very extensive supply of 

 plaice at all ; and in those places where there are 

 a few little trawlers working, by no means all the 

 year round, on a small piece of sandy ground and 

 catching a certain number of immature flat fish, 

 these grounds do not abut on any larger trawling 

 ground and are practically of no great importance 

 to the plaice supply of the British Islands. 



1140. But a great many English trawlers do 

 fish off the Irish (Doast — the Brixham trawlers, 

 for instance ? — Yes, not Brixham trawlers to any 

 great extent that I know of, but steam trawlers 

 from Cardiff, Milford Haven, they largely go to 

 the south and south-west in search of hake or 

 anytliing except flat fish ; they catch soles there 

 to some extent. 



1141. You get a good many soles in Dublin 

 Bay, do you not ? — A fair number, but Dubhn 

 Bay is closed to all trawling, and has been for 

 some years. In the south-western grounds, 

 where they go, the grounds are steep and there 

 are no shallow flats haunted by small flat fish. On 

 the eastern coast the bays are mostly closed by 

 by-law. I know the fish supply there and the 

 different sizes of fish all along that coast every- 

 where very well from constantly trawling my- 

 self, and there is no very serious damage done by 

 the'small amount of fishing there is on that coast. 



1142. "What are your grounds for closing these 

 various bays round the Irish coast to trawling ? 

 — On account of a number of reasons with which 

 I am not personally concerned ; but I suppose 

 the destruction of small fish is also prevented 

 by closing them. 



1143. Were there any other grounds except 

 preventing the destruction of small fish ? — I am 

 not aware of the grounds. No considerable 

 trawling by-laws have been passed since I have 

 been a member of the Department, that I can 

 remember, except on the eastern coast ; and in 

 that case the trawlers used to come into a place 

 where they did catch a certain amount of small 

 fish. That area has been closed to them now, 

 and they do not come there any lounger. 



Lord Tweedmouth — continued. 



1144. How are soles now caught in Dublin 

 Bay ; is it by line or by nets ? — They are not 

 caught actually in Dublin Bay at all except a 

 few perhaps in the trammels ; but just outside 

 the bay itself the sole ground is ; the sailing, 

 trawlers catch them there ; a good many at cer- 

 tain seasons of the year. 



1145. Would you tell us about the Regula- 

 tions made with regard to the mesh of nets, in 

 the way Mr. Green referred to ? — I cannot tell ■ 

 you the exact mesh that is at present' in opera- 

 tion. I do not remember it, and I was not aware 

 that the question i would arise, but there is- a 

 regulation saying that the mesh of a wade net 

 shall not be less than, say, 2 J inches between 

 each knot. These wade nets are small pieces of net 

 mounted without gathering on the head and foot- 

 rope, so that they do not sag in any way, and are 

 hauled along the shallows by a couple ot horses,, 

 one out in the sea and the other along the shore. - 

 I have watched them at this work and mads' 

 some sort of record of their catch. The meshes • 

 keep perfectly open ; they do not, as a matter of 

 fact, catch much small fish now except a few 

 small turbot 5 and the industry is disappea,rin^ 

 altogether. So far as I know there is only one 

 wade net, perhaps two, in existence at all now on 

 the eastern coast. 



1146. Is that the only regulation with regard • 

 to the mesh of nets that you know of? — I know ■ 

 there aie other regulations with regard to the ' 

 mesh of nets, but no regulations affecting the 

 mesh of trawlers. There are some regulations 

 about the height of trammels, and of course there 

 are regulations affecting trout and salmon nets. 



1147. Yes, I am not speaking about those ; 

 but do you suppose that the regulation with 

 regard to the mesh of wade nets has partly led 

 to their disuse? — -No, I do not think it was 

 ever a serious industry at all. It was practised,: 

 I believe, by gentlemen living along the shore,, 

 and farmers when they had nothing better to do, 

 and they seem to have got tired of it. 



1148. Then the steam trawling in Sheep- 

 haven Bay is absolutely prohibited ? — I fanc)^ all 

 kinds of trawling are prohibited in Sheephaven 

 Bay. 



Lord Tweedmouth.'] Do you say that, Mr. 

 Green ? 



Mr. Green.] No, sailing trawling is not pro- 

 hibited. I have all those byelaws here. 



Lord Tweedmouth.] But you agree, Mr. 

 Green, with what Mr. Holt said with regard to 

 the disuse of the wade nets ? 



Mr. Green.] Yes 



Lord Tweedmouth.] It is not worth while going 

 into ; it is such a small thing. 



Mr. Green.] No. 



Lord Tweedmouth 



1149. {To the Witness.) But you may generally 

 say, with regard to most of the coast of Ireland, 

 that steam trawling is prohibited at all times 

 within the 3-mile limit? — It amounts very 

 nearly to that. 



1150. And then, of course, there are certain 

 areas in which all trawling is prohibited ? — That 

 is so. ^ 



1151. But 



