SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL.. 



65 



LO March 1904.1 



Mr. J. T. CUNNINGHAST, F.Z.S. 



[Continued. 



Lord 'Jhveedinouth — continued. 



generally adults. But the way in which it is 

 most easy to distinguish them is by ascertaining 

 the maturity of the different samples. If you 

 take a sample from the eastern grounds or from 

 the north part of the North Sea, say between 10 

 and 20 inches in length, the 12, 13, and 14-inch 

 plaice would all be immature, or nearly all; 

 whereas from the grounds off Lowestoft and 

 Plymouth they would nearly all be mature. 



118^. Then how do you know that the small 

 plaice on the eastern grounds belong to the 

 larger race ? — Because we never find them 

 mature under 13 inches ; we never find them in 

 a spawning condition under 13 inches. 



Chairman. 



1189. Taking the fish which come into 

 Lowestoft, do you believe them to be mainly of 

 the smaller race of plaice ? — Yes, mainly. 



1190. Whereas those that come into Grimsby, 

 Hull, and London are mainly the larger race of 

 plaice ? — Yes. 



1191. Therefore you believe it to be more 

 desirable to protect the undersized fish which 

 are now brought into the ports of Hull, Grimsby 

 and London than the ' undersized fish that are 

 brought into Lowestoft and Ramsgate ? — Yes, 

 and also because the quantities are so immenselj- 

 greater. 



1192. And you would, no doubt, agree also 

 with the last witness, that it is only during 

 certain months of the year that the great 

 majority of these fish are brought in ? — Yes ; 

 that is the experience of the trade and my own 

 observation. 



1193. And yOu believe that it would not be 

 worth while, from your examination of the 

 boxes and the value of them, to go to those 

 grounds if plaice under 11 inches were not 

 allowed to be landed ? — I think it would make a 

 great man}- voyages unprofitable. But, of 

 course, the fish that are caught in different 

 voyages vary with the distance from the shore 

 and the depth of the water, and also from cir- 

 cumstances that are unknown. A man may 

 find good, valuable fish on a certain ground one 

 week, and the next week may find it almost 

 bare ; but on the average I have no doubt a size 

 limit even of 10 inches would make a large 

 number of these voyages unprofitable. 



1194. Would not the trawler at once give up 

 fishing if he found the large fish had left the 

 area where he had been fishing a day or two 

 before ? — Undoubtedly. According to my ex- 

 perience on board trawlers they are always 

 searching for grounds where they can get good 

 hauls; and if the hauls cease to be good they 

 invariably go elsewhere. They sometimes steam 

 a thoTisand miles on one voyage. 



1196. You have yourself made some trips on 

 trawlers on these eastern grounds, have you not ? 

 —Yes. 



119b'. Then you can tell us what the practice 

 is — what fish are kept, and what fish are thrown 

 overboard ? — It varies a great deal. I went out 

 twice on trawlers to try and get amongst the 

 plaice on the eastern grounds. The first time 

 we did not go near enough to the shore to get 

 (0.10.) 



Cha irman — continued, 

 what are known as small fish at all ; we got 

 good-sized fish. On the second voyage I was 

 rather surprised to find that the skipper him- 

 self threw overboard all the plaice under 10 

 inches. 



1197. Do you think that many of those lived ? 

 — Yes, I should think at least 25 per cent, of 

 them would live. 



1198. Therefore, even if these small plaice are 

 caught and are not allowed to be landed, at 

 any rate a certain proportion of them would 

 survive which are now destroyed ? — Undoubt- 

 edly. 



1199. What is the smallest size you have seen 

 landed in Billingsgate ? — In Billingsgate I think 

 I measured one 6 inches; I believe they are- 

 sometimes 51 inches. That is about the 

 smallest. 



1200. When j'ou were traAvling on these 

 waters did you notice what, foreign vessels there- 

 were there ? — The only foreign vessels I saw 

 were small sailing vessels which the fishermen 

 call snibs. They are half-decked vessels, not 

 like the English sailing trawler. They are- 

 much smaller : vessels of about 15 to 20 tons. 



1201. And as compared with English trawlers 

 there, are the foreign trawlers insignificant in 

 numbers ? — I do not know the numbers. I do^ 

 not think they are very numerous. 



1202. You have no doubt in your own mind, 

 have you, that it is within the competence of 

 Parliament to give orders to vessels of British 

 nationality to go or not to go, or to do anything 

 they may enact ? — That is, I understand, the 

 law on the matter — that Government have the 

 power to prohibit all English vessels. 



1203. I think you yourself have taken legal' 

 advice upon the matter ? — Yes. 



1204. With regard to the size limit, you sa)- 

 that an 8-inch limit would not protect the 

 eastern grounds ? — I feel quite convinced of 

 that. 



1205. What effect would the large limit of 

 13 or 12i inches have upon the Lowestoft and 

 Plymouth smack-owners ? — So far as my expe- 

 rience goes, both at Lowestoft (I do not know 

 Ramsgate very well, but the conditions are 

 much the same) and Plymouth, I think it would 

 practically do away with the trawling industry 

 to have a limit of 13 inches. 



1206. Therefore a common limit applied to 

 all vessels would have one of two effects — either 

 it would seriously damage the industry in one 

 part of England, or prove ineffective in protec- 

 mg the small fish ? — Yes. With regard to those 

 extremes that you have mentioned. You have 

 mentioned two extreme .sizes, 8 and 13 inches. 

 I think the happy medium might be found. 



1207. Wh.it is your happy medium ? — The 

 conclusion I have come to at present is that 

 if it was necessary to make a limit applying 

 to all the coasts of Britain, it would be possible 

 to impose a limit of 10 inches for plaice and 

 soles, and 12 inches for turbot and brill. 



1208. And joii think that would benefit the 

 fishing industry in all parts of England ? — I 

 think it would be a great benefit to the supply 

 I of' 



