SELECT .COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL 



.67 



10 Marr], 1904; 



Mr. J. T. CUNNINUHAM, F.Z.S. 



[Continued. 



Cha irman — continued, 

 where the great majority of these small fish are, 

 and to leave the others alone ?-r-Yes. 



1227. Can you tell me anything of the size 

 and tonnage of the vessels at Lowestoft ? — They 

 are mostly about 50 tons — from 40 to ,60 tons. 



1228. Do they go to the eastern grounds ? — I 

 think they never go to what- we call the eastern 

 grounds. They may go near to the Dutch 

 coast, opposite Lowestoft, up and down, arid get 

 small plaice there, but that is not what is knoAvn 

 technically as the eastern grounds at Grimsby. 



1229. Are the vessels that do go to the eastern 

 grounds larger than the vessels you have just 

 mentioned ? — According to my experience the 

 vessels that go to the eastern grounds are the 

 steam trawlers of Grimsby and Hull. I do not 

 know what the conditions are now. Some years 

 ago there was a large fleet of sailing smacks, 

 owned principally in Yarmouth, I believe, that 

 in the summer used to be stationed on the 

 eastern grounds, and the fish was collected 

 by steam carriers and taken up to Billingsgate. 



1230. Then, presumably, the object of pre- 

 serving these fish would be attained if by the 

 Ord-ers of the Board of Agi-iculture and 

 Fisheries, the prohibition of the landing of small 

 fisli was confined to these steam trawlers and the 

 carriers which bring them to market ? — Yes, if 

 that could be practically arranged. 



1231. In that case, the vessels sailing from 

 Lowestoft would not be affected ? — No. 



1232. On the other hand, if subsequently the 

 vessels sailing from Lowestoft did find it 

 sufiiciently profitable to go to those grounds, 

 the elasticity of the measure now under the 

 consideration of the Committee Avould be 

 sufiicient to enable the Board of Agriculture and 

 Fisheries to prohibit them also ? — Yes, I do not 

 think there is much probability of sailing 

 smacks from Lowestoft going to the Heligolancl 

 grounds. I think the distance is too great for 

 them, especially in the summer time, when the 

 winds are light. 



1233. From your own practical experience of 

 the matter, do you think there would be any 

 diflicnlty in making this measure apply to the 

 vessels that fish on these eastern grounds with- 

 out in any way interfering with the fishing trade 

 in other parts of the country ? — No, I do not 

 think there would be any gi-eat difficulty if it 

 was applied to steam trawlers and steam 

 carriers ; that is perfectly definite. I think the 

 only difliculty might be that if the prohibition 

 was confined to certain ports they might try to 

 land af other ports on the coast. 



1234. Then would it be possible to apply it to 

 those other ports also ? — Yes. 



Lord Northhourrtr. 



1235. You have given attention, 1 suppose, to 

 the penalties which are proposed and put for- 

 ward under this Bill. " Any person liable on 

 conviction under the Summary Jurisdiction Act 

 shall be fined not exceeding one pound for every 

 packag e. containing fish landed in contravention 

 of the Order; or, where fish are not contained 

 in packages, to a fine not exceeding twenty 

 pounds." Do you think that meets the case ? 



(0.10.) 



Lord iYo7-i/i?)om'/?.e^continued. 



Do you think that will be effective ?— Yes, I 

 think so ; I think it will be enough. 



1236. Have you had much contact with the 

 fishing population yourself? — I have been 

 amongst them for many years — nearly 20 years. 



1237. Have you heard Ihat subject discussed 

 at all — about the penalties ?— No, I have not 

 heard it discussed a great deal. I have had 

 some experience of the risks they run and the 

 penalties they suffer for transgressing the regu- 

 lations of other nations. If they fish within the 

 Danish or German territorial limits, the boat is 

 arrested, the captain is taken to prison, the fish 

 and gear are confiscated, and very often a heavy 

 fine is paid as well. 



1238. Does that often occur now ? — Yes, I 

 was at Grimsby in 1895 and 1896, and it occurred 

 several times. 



1239. What was the offence committed ? — 

 Fishing within the territorial waters of those 

 countries ; but the attraction was the immature 

 fish ; they had to go within the territorial 

 waters in order to till up with these small 

 plaice. 



1240. How do you think the fishing popula- 

 tion will receive this legislation ? — I do not 

 know what view the fishermen might take, 

 because I have not paid a great deal of attention 

 to the opinion of the fishermen themselves, 

 those that catch the fish. I have paid more 

 attention to the opinions, of the owners of the 

 boats. 



1241. Do you think if this capture of under- 

 sized fish were to go on on any large scale it 

 Avould tend to the destruction of this industry 

 altogether eventually ? — I do not know how long 

 it would take to destroy the industry altogether. 

 I would not like to say that the actual trawling 

 industry or the existence of plaice in the North 

 Sea would ever be entirely destroyed, but I have 

 a rather strong feeling that if some practical 

 method was found, and the measure could be 

 enforced, we should succeed in increasing the 

 number of larger fish on the fishing grounds, 

 and that is the great object which seems to me 

 to be desirable. The number of larger fish has 

 been so reduced that we can get nothing but 

 small ones now. 



1242. Then with regard to the destruction of 

 these fish by their own species or by other 

 animals, does that go on on a very large scale ? 

 —We do not know a great deal about that, but 

 there is not, as far as I know, a very great 

 destruction of plaice, or other flat fishes when 

 they reach the condition of what we call 

 immature fish. With regard to plaice from two 

 up to, say, 10 inches, there is no very great 

 natural destruction of them, so far as I know, 

 but there is undoubtedly very great destruction 

 before they reach the condition of perfect plaice, 

 at 2 inches in length. 



1243. Have you ever given any attention to 

 the question of the reproductive power of these 

 fish ? — Yes, I have calculated the number of 

 eggs in various fishes. 



1244. How many eggs do you think there 

 would be found in a mature sole ? — I do not 

 know exactly, but I think Mr. Holt's memory 

 was at fault when he said so many million. I 

 remember nrettv well that the n;imber ct egrjs 

 I'- in 



