KELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



1 Ma rch ] n04.J 



Mr. C. Hellyer. 



[Continued. 



ClLainuan — continued. 



1338. Can you tell at all what proportion of 

 that value was for full-sized fish ? — No, there is 

 no record of that. 



1339. What I want to know is, whether in 

 your opinion, if those vessels were prevented 

 from landing these small fish, the effect would 

 be to keep them off those grounds altogether ? — 

 We think so. 



1340. Can you substantiate that by any 

 figures? — It is only from the commercial stand- 

 point. When a vessel fishes there he relies not 

 only on the undersized flat fish, but he relies 

 upon a little prime and a few haddocks. As I 

 say, the prime realise 11. 5s. lOd. per catcher per 

 cutter, and that in itself would not maintain a 

 catcher ; neither would the haddocks. Haddocks 

 are rather scarce there ; but, taking it as a whole, 

 he can get over the few days. 



1341. What reduction of percentage in the 

 value of the gross takings of the vessels would 

 prevent them ifrom fishing on those eastern 

 grounds during those months ? — One could not 

 answer that question. I mean that the earnings 

 of the fishing vessels are so irregular that it is 

 impossible to be too dogmatic about a thing of 

 that sort. 



1342. Assuming that a trawler working off 

 the Danish coast had a catch, of which 40 per 

 cent, of plaice consisted of plaice under 10 

 inches, or 60 per cent, under 11 inches, would it 

 be v/orth their while to go to those grounds for 

 the sake of the balance of larger fish that they 

 would catch ? — Their operations vary so much 

 that it is impossible to answer the question. 

 Sometimes the run of fish are a little larger, 

 sometimes they are a httle smaller, sometimes 

 the bulk is greater and sometimes it is less ; it 

 is impossible to lay down any rule. If we could 

 only know and understand what the general 

 operation of this regulation would be for the 

 prohibition of landing, I mean as to size, we 

 might have something to go upon. 



1343. All you can say is, from your experience, 

 that you believe it would have that effect ? — 

 That is so. 



1344. Can you give us now some information 

 as to the condition of the bottom of the sea in 

 these grounds which have been constantly 

 fished on the eastern side of the North Sea ? — 

 Yes, the ground is formed of deltas from rivers 

 in conjunction with sheltered water ; that is say 

 the erosion of the land has been, of course, 

 going on for centuries, and there are hard sub- 

 stances which the sea has had to encounter which 

 have remained in the shape of islands and sub- 

 merged banks, which form protection for the 

 small flat fish in the deltas and inner waters all 

 along that coast, more especially from Heligo- 

 land and Horn Reef ; and that is the particular 

 part of the coast where the greatest number of 

 these undersized fish congregate. 



1345. Your company, the Hull Steam Fishing 

 and Ice Company, have made some very con- 

 siderable catches of full-sized plaice, have they 

 not ? — Yes. During 1902 the plaice increased 

 very much. In 1901 the number of plaice 

 caught by the Hull Steam Fishing Company's 

 vessels was 21,837 boxes ; in 1902 the same 

 number of vessels caught 95,619 boxes ; in 1903 



(0 10.) 



Ghairnian — continued. 



the catch was 58,331 boxes, so that you see in 

 the year 1902 there was a very considerable in- 

 crease. 



1346. Did you go to other gi-ounds — to fresh 

 grounds ? — No, that was in the North Sea ; 

 these vessels always fish in theo Nrth Sea. 



1347. Then there has been no alteration m 

 the conditions ? — No alteration at all. 



Marquess of Huntly.] Was any part of that 

 on eastern grounds ? — No, except in the usual 

 months of April, May, and June; that is all, 

 that applies all through ; but the year 1902 was 



a very prolific year, not only for plaice, but ior 

 all kinds of fish. 



Chulrnian. 



1348. As compared with the sailing trawlers 

 of 20 years ago, do you consider that the same 

 quantity of fish is caught now per vessel as was 

 caught then per vessel ? — Not nearly so much. 



1349. I think it has been said that the sailing 

 trawlers used to catch 160 tons a year?— Yes; 

 but that is not a difference owing to the condition 

 of the sailing vessel or the steam vessel. We 

 had to take the North Sea when we first went 

 into it from the Channel when it had never been 

 fished in, and at almost every bank we went 

 upon an abundance of fish were found, although 

 many of them were not edible owing to age and 

 decrepitude, and all that sort oi thing. 



1350. Are you still opening up new fishing 

 grounds ? — Yes, we are. 



1351. And therefore do you think the total 

 catches, those very large catches, and sometimes 

 increasing catches, may be due to opening up 

 fresh grounds ? — Yes ; over one-third of the fish 

 landed in Hull during 1903 was brought from 

 Icelandic waters. 



1352. In 1901 there was a very small catch — 

 only 21,000 boxes ?— Yes. 



1353. Was that not the year of the strike ? — 

 We have had no strike in Hull. 



Lord Heneage.] The strike was in Grimsby. 



Chairmaii. 



1354. You would agree, would you not, that 

 the best possible solution of this difficulty would 

 be an International Convention ? — Yes. 



1355. But inasmuch as that has been con- 

 sidered for many years past without our getting' 

 very much nearer, j'ou think it is time that 

 some legislation was passed in this country :' — 

 We do ; we think that something should be 

 done , we have been trying to get it done for 

 over 20 years. 



1356. If we were to attempt to exclude our 

 own vessels from fishing on those grounds 

 directly by prohibition, would not the cost of 

 policing the area be excessive ? — Not inter- 

 nationally between Heligoland and Horn Reef 

 If you reduce the area of 300 miles by about one- 

 half, where the greatest number of these fish 

 abound, then I thmk it would be possible for it 

 to be done internationally. 



1357. But my question was as affecting our 

 own vessels. Supposing instead of saying to 

 vessels, " You shall not land fish brought from 

 those bcfls," we said, " You shall not ,l;o to thosi.; 



K beds 



