MINUTES Oi' EVIDEXCE TAKEX BEFORE THE 



10 March 1904] 



Mr. C. Hellyeb. 



Continuea. 



Chairma n — continued. 



beds to fish at all " ? — I do not tliink that would 

 be possible, because you would be interfering 

 with the freedom and rights of the subjects in 

 doing their business, if they were carrying on a 

 legitimate business. 



1358. But it would be within the competence 

 of Parhament to do it ? — I do not think it would 

 be wise. 



1359. That is another matter. Can you hand 

 in any statistics of fish recently caught in Ice- 

 landic waters, which I understand is a new 

 trade ? — Yes. Previously to 1898 the business 

 was not of large proportions, fr-om Hull in 

 189S there were 187 voyages, which brought to 

 Hull 71,360 cwt., and the average per voyage 

 was 381 cwt. In 1899 there were 291 voyages 

 producing 140,947 cwt., or an average of 484 cwt. 

 per voyage. In 1900 there were 287 voyages 

 producing 171,705 cwt., or an average of 598 cwt 

 per voyage. In 1901 there were 472 voyages 

 producing 343,685 cwt., or an average of 728 cwt. 

 per voyage. In 1902 there were 607 voyages, 

 producing 467,485 cwt., or an average of 

 770 cwt. per voyage ; and in 1903 there were 751 

 voyages, producing 580,420 cwt., or an average 

 of 773 cwt. per voyage. 



1360. That is to say that the trade has been 

 steadily increasing both m the number of 

 voyages and in the average per voyage ? — That 

 is so. 



1361. And all that has to be added to the 

 catch from the rest of the Xorth Sea, being 

 in addition to what took place before your 

 vessels went to Icelandic waters ? — That is so. 



1362. And have 3'ou been building special 

 vessels for this Icelandic trade ? — In Hull we 

 have built about 70 special vessels. That has 

 arisen, I may say, from the disappointment to 

 the owners, as a result of their repeated state- 

 ments to the Governments of this country as to 

 the injur}- caused to the nursery grounds and 

 failing to obtain any redress whereby the fish in 

 the North Sea might be increased. We have 

 had to adapt our machiner}' and our plant 

 to go further afield to bring the fish that 

 the people demand ; and the consequence is that 

 we have increased the tonnage of the HuU 

 vessels in about five years by over 20 tons on 

 the average ; consequently, it follows that the 

 70 vessels that we have built are considerablv 

 in excess in size and power of those that were 

 in existence before. 



1363. "\Miat is the proportion of the total 

 catch ? — It is one-third of what is landed in 

 Hull. 



1364. Then that one-third should be deducted 

 in making any comparison between the catch 

 brought into Hull now and the catch brought 

 into HuE 20 years ago ? — Yes. In 1900, when I 

 gave evidence before the Committee ot the House 

 of Commons, I made it a complaint to the Com- 

 mittee that the returns of the Board of Trade 

 did not discriminate, and consequently they were 

 misleading as to any information they might 

 L,dve to anyone studying them. An enquiry, I 

 oeHeve, was held by the officials afterwards, and 

 AS the result of that, I beheve, ofiieers are being 

 appointed at the chief fishing stations. I still 

 think that other reforms can be made in these 

 i-ptnrns. n.nd a better method of collection 



Chai) 



-continued. 



adopted to instruct the pubhc and the authorities 

 as to the conditions and the changes that go on. 



1365. At any rate you would not for a moment 

 admit that the figure of the total catch of fish 

 is any criterion of the increase or decrease of 

 fishing in the Xorth Sea ? — Xo ; the changes are 

 still continuaEy going on. I believe mj'self that 

 mackerel, herrings, sprats, and pilchards should 

 be kept separate fr-om ground or bottom fish, 

 because it is with regard to the bottom fish that 

 all these enquiries and diflficulties take place. 

 The herring is entirely outside the control of 

 man, and so are all round fish ; that is to sa}-, 

 we know that floods of haddocks and cod and 

 these other fish come up from the northern seas 

 at different periods and replenish the Xorth Sea. 

 The haddock follows the herring, and we find at 

 certain periods his body and his tlesh so saturated 

 with oil through devouring the herring spawn 

 that it is impossible for the men to handle them. 



1366. But for the moment you think it would 

 be qiute sufficient if legislation deals with flat 

 fish and leave the round fish alone ? — Yes. 



1367. X^ow wdth regard to the strange varia- 

 tion in the quantity ot fish caught in 1901 and 

 1902, I was right, was I not, in saying just now 

 tliat 1901 -was the year of the strike at Grimsby ;■ 

 — It may have been ; I think it was. 



1368. And in consequence of that strike a 

 large number of vessels were laid up for a con- 

 siderable period of the year ? — Yes, for three 

 months. 



1369. Is it not possible that the enormous 

 increase in the take in 1902 was due to the fact 

 that a great many of the Grimsby vessels which 

 would otherwise have gone out in the summer 

 months to capture undersized fish, were laid up ; 

 and those undersized fish grew to be a better 

 value ? — Partially, but not altogether. In the 

 latter part of 1902 this increase of round fish 

 took place. In the month of September, 1902, 

 it was first noticed by our North Sea fishers 

 that they were catching innumerable quantities 

 of unaersized or small haddock. That also 

 occurred all through 1903. So that there were 

 two factors operating in the increase : one the 

 Grimsby vessels being laid up, and the other, 

 by far the main one, viz., these mjTiads of 

 haddocks coming into the North Sea. I might 

 say that increase was so abnormal that the 

 haddocks have spread over grounds in tire North 

 Sea where haddocks were never found before- — 

 in search of food, I imagine. 



After a short Adjournment. 



Duke of Abercom. 



1370. I think j-ou stated in your evidence 

 just now to Lord Onslow, that the old decrepid 

 plaice was not fit for food ? — Yes, first when we 

 went and fished on the Dogger Bank the fish 

 were not edible. 



1371. In what sense were the fish not edible ? 

 — They were so large and thin that there was 

 nothing but skin and bone, and the fishermen 

 refrained from catching them. 



1372. I suppose that was rather an unusual 

 state of affairs ? — Xo ; we find it generally on all 

 new grounds ; it has been the same in Iceland, and 

 it wps the sfune with the Brixham Trawler in 



• catchin^r 



