KKLECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES KILE. 



75 



10 March 1904.] 



Mr. C. Hellyer 



[Continued. 



Duke of Abercorn — continued. 



catching thesoles round to thewestv/ard. Thetirst 

 soles the Brixham trawlers caught round to the 

 westward were hardly marketable, they were so 

 long and thin. 



1373. Have you made any computation as to 

 what age that kind of fish would attain ? — I 

 should say they would be a great age. It is a 

 fact that the fisherman himself never chooses a 

 large fish for his own eating. 



1374. Nor does anybody else, if they have 

 any knowledge of it. You are aware with 

 regard to this Bill that the sale is prohibited of 

 undersized fish for the whole of the year ?— 

 That is so. 



1375. Some people think that a time limit 

 would be sufficient, say five to six months. Is 

 it your opinion that if such a time limit was 

 put into the Bill, it would have the same effect 

 of stopping the sale of undersized fish ? — No, 

 we do not agree with that. We recognise this 

 difference in the mode of fishing — that it is 

 carried on in two ways ; first by single boaters, 

 and secondly by fleets. The fleets combine ; 

 or in other words a number of steam trawlei's fish 

 in company whose catchers are ferried to the 

 carrier, and thereby the catch of that particular 

 fleet is sent direct to London. There are 160 

 vessels working in that way from Hull who send 

 their catches direct to London, and during 1903 

 1,050,000 cwts. of fish were sent in that way to 

 London direct. After the month of August it is 

 not safe for that body of vessels to work in con- 

 junction one with the other on that coast, 

 because the equinoxes begin to put in, and the 

 longer nights, the coast is so low and indistin- 

 guishable that it is not safe for a number of vessels 

 working in fleets to work on that side, and there- 

 fore they withdraw ; then the single boater begins 

 to operate. Therefore, we think it is advisable to 

 make the hmit for the whole of the year 



1376. Supposing the closing did not take 

 place for the whole of the year, it would be 

 rather difficult to stop that influx of foreign fish 

 which you say comes into England through 

 Harwich ? — Of course there is no law that we 

 can adopt that will prevent the foreigner from 

 catching that fish if he thinks proper, but we 

 can prevent its being landed on the English 

 coast, 



1377. And I think you and another witness 

 have stated that the largest amount of fish 

 comes into England through that channel ? — 

 Yes, we believe it does ; in fact, we know it 

 does. 



1378. You also stated that the foreign trawlers 

 are increasing ? — Yes. 



1379. Are they subsidised as a rule by their 

 Governments ? — Assistance is being given to 

 syndicates to develop the industry, and especially 

 by Germany and France, we vmderstand, by 

 money loaned at ver}' low interest, and even no 

 interest paid at all, until the industries come to 

 a certain state of prosperity. And we know for 

 a fact that the French people especially are 

 coming and buying large numbers of steam 

 trawlers from England, and in that way they get 

 the exact shape of the machine, and so on, and 

 then they build afterwards from the examples 

 they have bought. 



(b.io.) 



L">uke of Ahercorn — continued. 



1380. We have had it in evidence that on the 

 far east fisheries there are about 1,200 English 

 trawlers working, and about 200 foreign 

 trawlers. If the foreign trawlers are increasing 

 in number, it might possibly add to the 

 difficulty eventually of policing those waters 

 and in the event of any International agreement 

 being come to to prevent fishing during certain 

 months, or entirely during the whole year, in 

 those waters ? — I hardly gather your Grace's 

 question 



1381. At the present moment we have 1,200 

 trawlers, say. 1 suppose, if we endeavour to 

 police those waters, we should have to provide 

 boats quoad the number of trawlers with regard 

 to the amount of English vessels ? — But there 

 are never nioi'o than about 300 fishing on that 

 side at one time. I should say that is the 

 maximum number. As a rule it will not carry 

 two fleets, it will only carry one. If one fleet 

 works the small plaice alone and sends the pro- 

 duce to London, it may find a paying mamet. 

 If two fleets work the same article it cannot 

 pay — the market cannot take it. It is only the 

 very poor of London, as a rule, that can take 

 that fish. 



1382. Do the big-sized fish in the deep water 

 occupy only a certain space, in the same way as 

 you might imagine in game ? Game only occupy 

 a certain space in any locality, and go off to 

 other districts. Would it be the same for fish, 

 or would any amount of fish, irrespective of the 

 size of the ground, occupy that ground ; or, if 

 they found there was not sufficient food, would 

 they go off to some other district ? — We believe 

 that the whole migration of fish is governed by 

 two principles. One is the operation of coming 

 together to fructify the ova, and the other is in 

 search of food, and that the one which predomi- 

 nates the most, because it extends over a longer 

 period of time in the life of the fish, is the 

 search for food. We know from observation 

 that the spawn is carried by the currents and by 

 the wind to certain shores where it comes to 

 life, especially on the east side; it is then 

 sustained in this oozy ground, which is necessary 

 for the young flat fish life, because it cannot live 

 on a hard bottom, because it cannot bury 

 itself easily without injury, and therefore it is 

 necessary for young flat fish life that the 

 the ground should be of an oozy, soft nature, so 

 that it can easily bury itself. There it accrues 

 strength and growth and gradually works 

 back into the deeper water, and when those 

 fish are a year, or two years old, we find, 

 mid-way between the east side and the Dogger 

 Bank, in what we call the scruff, then they are 

 plaice of about a foot long. 



1383. Are there a large number of spawning 

 beds along t he coast of the British Isles ? — ^I 

 think not as many as the authorities think. 

 There are no spawning grounds, in fact, 

 in my opinion, that fish go to a bay or an 

 estuary to spawn. The flat fish spawns where ic 

 is living and getting its food. That spawn is 

 influenced by the tides and winds and carried 

 wherever those influences carry it, 



1384. But I suppose you are of opinion that 

 wherever the spawning beds exist along the 



K 2 coast 



