76 



MIXl'TES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



10 March 1904.] 



Mr. C. Hellyer. 



[Continued. 



Duke of Ahercovn — continued. 



coast of the Luited Ivingdom, those should b® 

 as far as possible protected ? — Yes, that is so, and 

 I think they are clearly defined. On the east 

 coast we believe they are the estuaries of the 

 Thames, of the Wash, of the Humber, and ol 

 the Tees ; and the spawn that is floating on the 

 west side of the North Sea, that is on the 

 EngHsh shores, is influenced by local tides; which 

 extend about 30 miles easterly from the coast. 

 Beyond that Une, the wind alone operates upon 

 the sea, and carries the spawn to the east side of 

 the sea. We have very strong proof of that, because 

 in working our fleets they frequently lose fish 

 boxes overboard, and things of that nature which 

 are floatable, and these are all found on the east 

 side of the sea. They are never found on the 

 west side, which is an absolute proof of the 

 action of the wind and current in carrying 

 flotsam to the east. 



Marqiiess of Huntly. 



1385. You said that the foreigners were 

 increasing in their trawling in these seas ? — -Very 

 much so. 



1386. Then although you look upon this 

 measure as an advantage, as a tentative one, you 

 look forward to an International arrangement to 

 exclude all trawls on these eastern grounds ? — 

 To exclude the landing in all countries. I 

 believe at present they have some prohibition 

 in ohe contmental countries as to landing their 

 flat fish, although I believe the size is very 

 small. I think it runs down to as low as 5 

 inches in France. 



1387. Your opinion is that if England took 

 the lead there is a prospect of making an agree- 

 ment by International convention that these 

 small fish should not be landed during the 

 breeding months ? — I think there is a very good 

 prospect ? 



1388. And it is worth trying i — AVe think so ; 

 but we think we should begin at home ; we 

 should take the initiative — we should set the 

 example. 



1389. We had it in evidence from Mr. Archer 

 that there is great difficult}' about an Inter- 

 national convention, because if France agrees 

 Germany will not, or if Germany agrees France 

 will not ? — That is all the more reason why we 

 should carry it out on our own action, because 

 we are more dependent upon the fisheries than 

 any other nation. 



1390. They might increase their number of 

 trawlers, and then the grounds would be 

 depleted just as much ? — 1 do not think any 

 otner nation are so naturally adapted as fisher- 

 men as the English people. If you look at the 

 history of the past, uJl through you will find that 

 the value of your fish has exceeded that of any 

 other country. Take the United States : they 

 calculate their weight of fish by pounds ; we cal- 

 culate it by cwts. I should say more fish is 

 wasted in England than is used by any other 

 country ; and one of the great sources of waste 

 is the exorbitant railway carriage because we in 

 HuU have caught 2,500,000 and odd cwts. of 

 fresli fish, which has averaged in Hull a penny a 

 pound : the .sale has avera2;ed a penny a pound 



Marquess of Huntly — continued, 

 lor turbot, plaice, brill, cod, skate, aud all kinds 

 of fish. That portion we have sent direct to 

 London by water has averaged a small fraction 

 over a penn}- ; that is what the fisherman gets for 

 his produce. Therefore it follows that at many 

 times during the year the fish has not made a half- 

 penny a pound; and the reason of that is, 

 that there is no merchant, when the fish is so 

 cheap and plentiful, who dare venture to incur 

 the great expense of the railway charge, besides 

 ice, twine, labour, and so on, to risk sending that 

 fish to a commission market ; and as a 

 consequence a great deal of it is wasted, and 

 what we call " mucked away," which will be used 

 for different things altogether foreign to what a 

 fi'esh article of diet like fish should be used 

 for. 



Duke of Ahercorn. 



1391. In fact, I suppose everybody connected 

 with the fishing industry in England complains 

 of the high railway rates ? — It prevents the 

 fresh fish getting to the public inland. It is 

 wasted to a very great extent on the coast. I 

 should say the fish from Iceland does not average 

 more than a halfpenny a pound to the catcher, 

 and he goes a thousand miles, and finds the 

 machinery and ice and labour and everything 

 and sells it in England at a half-penny a 

 pound. 



1392. I suppose you do not know anything 

 about the herring fishery ? — No. 



Earl of Yarborough. 



1393. Did I correctly understand you to tell 

 the Duke of Ahercorn that your trawlers went 

 to the eastern gi-ounds in the summer months ? 

 — Yes, spring and summer. 



1394. And that is when most of the damage 

 is done ? — That is when most of the damage is 

 done. 



1395. How long do they remain out there on 

 their voyages ?— It varies ; generally about ten 

 days — from a week to ten days. 



1396. What is the size of your trawlers ? — 

 The latest trawlers built for the Icelandic fishery 

 are 130 feet long, with about 80 horse power, 

 triple engines, and boilers with 200 lbs. pressure 

 of steam, capable of carrying 150 tons of bunker 

 coal, 40 tons of ice, and all necessary stores 

 to prosecute a month's fishing all contained 

 in itself. The North Sea trawler is of smaller 

 size, of course, and less capacity for carrying 

 coal and so on, because it it not necessary 

 to stay out so long; but in goiag to Ice- 

 land we have to steam from 1,000 to 1,200 

 miles to get to our fishing grounds. Then we 

 have to take all the vicissitudes, in catching fish, 

 of changing grounds and so on, and to bring it 

 back to England ; so that you see the necessity 

 of adapting the Aessels to that business ; owing, 

 as I said before, to the disheartening fact 

 that the authorities will not do anything to try 

 and prevent this destruction. We believe that 

 in a couple of years, if those fish were left alone, 

 they would work back and replenish the North 

 Sea again, as they have done m the past. Tliosc 

 fish always did exist there on the ban^ of tlic 



North 



