SELECT COMMITTEE ON" THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



77 



10 March 1904.] 



Mr. C. Hellyer. 



[Continued. 



Earl of Yarborough — continued. 



North Sea when the larger fish were being 

 caught further off, I may say. 



Lord Heneage. 



1397. I think you stated that you thought 

 some of the ports might be exempted. Is not 

 that the reason why the largest power should be 

 given under this Bill to the Board of Agricul- 

 ture and Fisheries, and not to have a hard-and- 

 fast rule ? — Yes. I do not say that as an 

 Englishman ; I do not admit it as an English- 

 man. I simply admit it as a matter of policy 

 to get the measure. I never can agree to the 

 differentiation of one man being allowed to 

 catch undersized fish and another not. 



1398. For the landing ? — Yes. Of course he 

 would not catch it unless he could land it. But 

 as a matter of policy I for one would agree to 

 giving those powers to the Board of Agriculture 

 and Fisheries, on the understanding, of course, 

 that they would safeguard one station as against 

 another, or one trader, if they found afterwards 

 that it would infringe upon catching that under- 

 sized fish. 



1399. And that is the unanimous feeling in 

 Hull ? — That is the unanimous feeling in Hull. 

 We have faith to believe, now that this new 

 Fishery Board is appointed, it will conserve and 

 protect the interests of all fishermen belonging 

 to England. We have suffered, of course, up to 

 now, from too much Scotch legislation. The 

 whole of the fishery legislation of this country 

 has been dominated by Scotland; there is no 

 doubt about it. 



1400. And in your opinion, unless there is 

 some such legislation as that now proposed, it 

 is utterly impossible that it can be effected by 

 any combination of the trade among them- 

 selves ? — Yes, we ask to be saved from ourselves. 



Lord Northhowi^ne. 



1400a. You are chairman of this compan)', are 

 you not ? — Hellyer's Steam Fishing Company. 



1401. Are there any other companies of the 

 same kind in Hull ? — Yes, several ; we have 

 382 steamers in Hull. 



1402. Belonging to your company? — No, in 

 Hull altogether ; and I am deputed to represent 

 those 882 vessels. 



1403. In the fishing industry, besides the 

 deep sea trawlers, there are those that trawl 

 much nearer the coast ? — They are still deep sea 

 trawlers. The largest quantity of fish that is 

 caught is caught by deep sea trawlers. I will 

 take a Brixham vessel; he is a deep sea trawler; he 

 is the one origin of deep sea trawling, the mother 

 of it all. If you come to a place like Hastings, 

 if you wanted fish for breakfast to-morrow you 

 would not have to depend upon the Hastings 

 boat to get it. It is a spasmodic, amateur 

 affair altogether ; it is not a commercial aiiair. 

 Probably if you go down in a month or two's 

 time they will take you out for a row or a sail. 

 I do not depreciate those small places when I 

 say that, but we think this matter is of much 

 greater importance than the consideration of one 

 man as between him and another, or a large 

 place as against a small place. It is a question, 

 first, whether we are of opinion that this de- 

 struction is c'oing on, and has been going on, 



Lord Nortlihoihrne — continued. 



amongst these undersized flat fish, and whether 

 it is wise and necessary to try and prevent it. 

 If it is, we think if a man is catching a basket of 

 fish a week, it is not fair to stop a measure o 

 that kind for the consideration of that man, in 

 the public interest. We have nothing to say 

 against the man. 



1404. Do I gather from that, that some of 

 these small fishing industries at a place like 

 Hastings would be opposed to this Bill ? — I 

 should say they Avould. 



1405. On what grounds ? — Because they would 

 say probably the North Sea trawler, if you 

 stop him from catching flat fish, will go and 

 eatch haddocks. If it was a Hastings man he 

 might say, " We have no haddocks to catch." 

 But in relation to that point I do not suppose 

 anyone will suffer so much as the steam trawler 

 owners in the ports of Grimsby and Hull if this 

 measure comes into operation. 



1406. Would you say that the opposition of 

 these smaller industries is the opposition of 

 ignorance ? — I believe it is a great deal preju- 

 dice. There is a great deal of prejudice ag.iinst 

 steam trawlers. It is a modern appliance to do 

 the work in a better and more expeditious 

 fashion, and a more certain fashion to- do the 

 work. People round the coast have antiquated 

 appliances such as the hand line or long line, 

 and they naturally feel aggrieved Avhen some 

 new machinery has come and made the other 

 obsolete. We have had all that experience. 

 I had 12 beautiful sailing vessels when steam 

 trawlers were introduced, and as soon as the first 

 trawler put in an appearance 50 per cent, of value 

 had gone out of my vessels. The result was, I 

 had to go into steam trawlers. That has been the 

 operation of all improvements that have come 

 into this country ; but you cannot stop progress, 

 and you cannot stop the demand of the people 

 for fresh fish. 



1407. But these people may not be very 

 influential or numerous ? — That is the unfor- 

 tunate part of it, especially from Scotland. I 

 mean to say, in confirmation of that, that I 

 believe there is really only one interested 

 Member of Parliament to interest hiraselt on 

 behalf of the industry of steam trawlery ; 

 that is our friend Alderman Doughty. There 

 is no other who has taken up the interest of 

 the steam trawlers against the innumerable 

 interests that flood into the House of Commons 

 to prevent a grand measure of this kind. And 

 again, the steam trawlers, instead of being iiailcd 

 by the public and by the authorities as bene- 

 factors to the country in spending money to 

 bring this product to the people, are looked 

 upon as the greatest enemy that ever came into 

 the North Sea. That is the awful position the 

 trawlers are in. All these other interests arc 

 listened to and heard, but the steam trawler is a 

 thing that has no right to be — it is almost con- 

 sidered to be illegal, and all sorts of humbug. 

 That makes it very difficult, no doubt, for 

 legislators to understand the question. 



1408. But if you can sufficiently prove that 

 the destruction of these undersized hsh is pre- 

 judicial to the general supply, do not you think 



this opposition will subside and be overcome ? 



I am afraid i:iot, beca,use a man will look inunc- 



rliatel 



