SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



83 



10 March 1904.] 



Mr. G. L. Alward. 



[Continued. 



Lord Heneage — continued. 



great difficulties we have to contend with; 

 therefore is it not better to follow out the advice 

 given by Mr. Hellyer, and leave it to the Board 

 to exempt here and there, if they think fit, some 

 smaU fishing village and the landing of fish at 

 that place ? — If the Board would like to take 

 that responsibility, so far as I am concerned they 

 are welcome to it ; but all I can say is that they 

 will find they have taken upon themselves a very 

 serious difficulty. 



1500. But the President has taken that 

 responsibility by introducing the Bill, has he 

 not ? — Yes, he has. 



1501. I think the Chairman asked you a 

 question as to whether you thought that the 

 prevention of landing under the Bill by an Order 

 would be effectual with your fleets. Is it not the 

 fact that now at the present time nearly all the 

 men are share men to a certain extent, and 

 therefore they have an interest in the catch ? — 

 Yes, I think we may say the majority. 



1502. The engineers are included now amongst 

 the share men ? — In some ports ; in Grimsby in 

 some cases, but T do not think in all. 



1503. At any rate the skippers and second 

 hands are ? — Yes, the principal hands. 



1503. Therefore you think they would not go 

 to any place to catch fish which they could not 

 sell if they landed them ? — Naturally so. 



1504. Then I think I mav take it that you 

 are perfectly prepared to support this Bill on 

 behalf of Grimsby in such shape as it may come 

 out of this Committee, rather than give up the 

 Bill with a view to any other hard-and-fast legis- 

 lation ? — You may take it as a fact that I shall 

 with all my heart support the Bill if his Lord- 

 ship will do what has been said, try if possible to 

 make some little compromise in the direction 

 which we have been asking. What that com- 

 promise may be of course I should leave to those 

 gentlemen who represent us. 



Chairman. 



1506. May I say that amongst those gentle- 

 men the member for Grimsby is the chief one ? 

 — I think that may be said. 



Lord Heneage. 



1507. I was just going to ask you this further 

 question. If those gentlemen who you say are 

 anvious to see this Bill passed, if it is necessary 

 to pass it in the shape it now is, are willing to 

 pass it, there is really no opposition in the trade 

 whatever; they are" absolutely unanimous? — I 

 think so. I think you heard all the opposition 

 so far as Grimsby is concerned - -it has been 

 frank and open ; the opposition has come in full 

 force, but of course it is a strong opposition ; 

 Grimsby is a very important place if you take it 

 in numbers and value. When you say that it is 

 only a small section, the opposition that -was 

 presented I think was unanimous, and it repre- 

 sents a very large portion of the fishing 

 industry. 



1508. But the question I asked you, and I 

 thought you answered me, was that Grimsby 

 would support this Bill in the shape that it may 

 come forth from this Committee and pass the 

 House of Lords, and do their best to get their 



(0.10.) 



Lord Heneage — continued. 



members to support it in the House of Com- 

 mons, rather than lose any Bill at all ? — I think 

 I ought to say frankly that we shall have the 

 greatest confidence in your Lordship's Com- 

 mittee and those persons who are connected 

 with you in doing the very best they can for 

 the fishing trade, and it will be left entirely with 

 them. That is my opinion. 



Earl of Tarborough 



1509. You told Lord Onslow that the young 

 fish were bred in Boston Deeps and were caught 

 outside the 3-mile limit by trawlers ? — Yes. 



1510. What trawlers are those ? — The 

 Grimsbj' trawlers. 



1511. They go there ? — Yes, and in the estuary 

 of the Humber. You see the shrimpers catch 

 immense quantities of these small fish, and our 

 North-Eastern Sea Fisheries Committee in 

 passing their byelaws felt compelled to put a 

 restriction on the capture of those small fish. 



Duke of Ahercorn. 



1511a. Do you represent the same interests 

 in Grimsby as Mr. Doughty ; are you identical 

 in your opinions ? — Yes ; only as a witness. I 

 am here as a member of the North Eastern Sea 

 Fisheries Committee. 



1512. Do you take any interest in the sailing 

 trawlers as well as the steam trawlers ? — There 

 are no sailing trawlers in Grimsby. 



1513. But you know the whole country? — I 

 know it well. 



1514. All down south ? — Yes. 



1515. Can it be put in evidence that our chief 

 opposition will come from them ? — That is so. 



1516. Owing to the fact that they are 

 represented by a large number of members in 

 Parliament ? — Yes. 



1517. I presume that these small sailing 

 trawlers earn their living by what they catch in 

 inland seas or off-coast seas ? — No, I think 

 generally speaking the Sea Fisheries Committees 

 are prohibiting trawling within the 3-mile 

 limit almost around the whole of the island. 



1518. But you stated just now in your 

 evidence that these catches are getting less with 

 sailing trawlers as" well as with the steam 

 trawlers ? — That is so. 



1519. What is the quality of fish that these 

 sailing trawlers catch outside the three-mile 

 limit ; they do not go far beyond the coast do 

 they ? — Yes, they mix with us ; we are all inter- 

 mixed. 



1520. They go up the North Sea ?— Yes, 

 they go up the North Sea ; we are all inter- 

 mixed. The Lowestoft and Yarmouth vessels 

 meet our steam trawlers, and our steam trawlers 

 go on to their ground ; there is no real line of 

 demarcation. It is perfectly true they keep 

 nearer their own port, but our vessels go up on 

 the Yarmouth grounds and the Lowestoft 

 grounds. The Lowestoft vessels, perhaps, do 

 not go as far north into the North Sea, but we 

 are all intermixed. 



1521. But at the same time the catch is less 

 with those sailing trawlers than it is with the 

 steam trawlers along the British coast, owing to 

 the diminution of flat fish ? — That is so. 



1502. What cause do you attribute that 

 L 2 diminution 



