SELECT COMMIITEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



85 



10 March 1904.J 



Mr. A. B. Capps. 



[Continued. 



Chairrnan — continued. 



have just suggested, may prove very detrimental 

 to their interests, especially so far as shrimpers 

 are concerned. The shrimping industry is a very 

 important one on the east coast of England, and 

 of course they trawl with the miniature trawl. 



1547. Are the shrimpers interfered with by 

 any of the byelaws round the coast ? — We 

 have no byelaws. 



1548. I know that you have not. I say by any 

 byelaws elsewhere round the coast ? — That I can- 

 not answer for ; we have none. 



1549. Do you think there is any evidence in 

 this Bill that there is any intention whatever to 

 interfere with shrimpers ? — ■ It looks rather 

 dangerous. Clause 2 gives the Board power to 

 make bj'elaws similar to what the fishery districts 

 have, and you have just asked the last witness, 

 did he not think it would be better to have a 

 uniform set of byelaws to regulate the whole coasts. 



1550. Would a byelaw which interfered with 

 shrimpers be in any way in uniformity with 

 the byelaws existing round the coasts of Eng- 

 land ? — 1 cannot say what those byelaws are. 



1551. You have not made yourself conversant 

 with them ? — No. 



1552. You do not know whether any fishery 

 committee has ever made any byelaws to inter- 

 fere with shrimpers ? — I know that they have on 

 the Lancashire coast. 



1553. Are the shrimpers prevented from land- 

 ing undersized fish there ? — I believe they have 

 restricted the mesh of their net so that it is 

 made impossible to catch fish. The shrimpers 

 fish with a miniature trawl with a very small 

 mesh, and the undersized fish naturally foUow 

 the shrimps to feed on the shrimps' spawn. 

 They congregate to a certain extent where the 

 shrimpers are trawling for shrimps, and they 

 must necessarily catch a certain amount of 

 these flat fish ; and if you restrict the instrument 

 which is provided for in this clause, or the mesh 

 of the net, by prescribing a bigger mesh, which 

 would not stop shrimps, you would absolutely 

 take their living away. 



1554. Then really the only objection that you 

 have to the Bill is the clause conferring upon 

 the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries the 

 power for making byelavfs ? — I object to the Bill 

 m its entirety. 



1555. Why? — Because I think, and all our 

 people think, that the penalties would be too 

 heavy, provided they have brought the fish 

 ashore for their own consumption. These people 

 are all small working men, you must under- 

 stand, and at times the depression in trade 

 makes it very hard for them to get food, and 

 these small fish are very beneficial to their wives 

 and families ; and if they brought them ashore 

 on a string they would be liable to a penalty of 

 201. ; if they brought them ashore in a 

 package they would be liable only to 11. You 

 would then deprive these families of a very 

 wholesome meal, which is very beneficial to 

 them. From the evidence I have heard to-day 

 I think this legislation simply emanates from 

 the steam trawl owners, and I think they are 

 rather selfish. 



1556. One moment. Let me ask you. You 

 have heard some of the evidence to-day, and do 

 you think for a moment from the evidence given 



Chairman — continued. 



to-day that any of the provisions of the Bill are 

 in the least intended to affect longshoremen 

 fishermen within the 3 -mile limit? — You see the 

 various gentlemen have stated that the legisla- 

 tion should apply to all classes of fishermen. If 

 you would exempt ihese smaller vessels, that is 

 to say, vessels under 15 or 16 tons, from the 

 clauses of this Bill 



1557. Would that satisfy you ? — It would 

 satisfy me so far. 



1558. 15 or 16 tons, you say? — Yes, but that 

 would not satisfy the trawling industry of Lowes- 

 toft. Lowestoft, I may say, has no steam 

 trawlers, but they have a splendid fleet of sailing- 

 trawlers, amounting to about 320. And I have 

 heard statements made that the sailing trawler 

 industry is on the decline. That is absolutely 

 wrong. There are over 20 new sailing trawlers 

 building for the port of Lowestoft alone, which 

 has been very prosperous during the past year 

 and some previous years, and in fact the local 

 builders have been so hamjjered by building 

 steam drifters that they have not been able to 

 take orders for building the sailing trawlers, and 

 the result is that they have been all round the 

 west coast to have these sailing trawlers built, 

 and the sailing trawl owners are now placing 

 orders in Lowestoft and other ports because the 

 trawhng industry has been very prosperous and 

 the trade is increasing. 



1559. What is the largest size ? — About 60 

 tons. I think that if the steam trawlers want 

 this legislation, the legislation should be confined 

 to steam trawlers alone, and let the sailing traw 

 alone. The sailing trawlers do not want legis- 

 lation, and in my mind you will have strenuous 

 opposition in the House of Commons from the 

 representatives of the sailing trawlers round 

 coast. 



1560. Let me ask you this question. Are 

 you aware that the Bill proposes to proceed by 

 Order of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries ? 

 —Yes. 



1561. Supposing that Order were confined to. 

 steam trawlers, would your objection to the Bill 

 disappear ? — Undoubtedly it would. We do 

 not care what legislation the steam trawlers 

 have, provided it does not touch the sailers. 



1562. I do not think I need trouble you any 

 further in that case. 



Duke of Ahercorn. 



1563. Where do your sailing trawlers fish ? 

 In what waters do they generally fish ? — They 

 fish right from the Norfolk and Suffolk coasts, 

 anywhere across to the other side, as far as the 

 Dutch coast. They do not go so far to the 

 north as the steam trawlers go. And I will tell 

 you where legislation will come in very detri 

 mentally to the sailing trawlers. The ' ground 

 for sailing trawlers must necessarily be limited, 

 because if certain grounds are closed at certain 

 times of the year, the steam trawlers, being the 

 more powerful vessel and propelled by steam, 

 can go farther north and on different ground. 

 That is impossible for the sailing trawlers ; they 

 must fish in a certain radius if they are to get 

 their fish to market in good condition. 



1564. Your sailing trawlers never catch any 

 undersized fish ? — Yes, I admit that they do 



1565 What 



