SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



87 



10 March 1904] 



Mr. A. B. Capps. 



[Co7itinued. 



Lord Northhourne. 



1586. Do not you think that the produce ot 

 the sea requires cultivation and regulation, just 

 in the same way as the produce of the land 

 requires a certain amount of administration ? — 

 Quite so ; I admit that, but my opinion is that 

 the most destructive people are the biggest people. 

 It is all very well for them to come here and 

 legislate ; they do not care for the small man. 



1 587. But those big people that you say are 

 so destructive are supported by the views of 

 men of science who have made a great study of 

 those things ? — Yes, undoubtedly, but they are 

 not infallible. 



1588. How does that square with your idea ot 

 their opposition being a selfish opposition ? — 

 Scientific men sometimes are at fault. 



1589. That no doubt is true ? — I believe it is a 

 very diiEcult matter. They may be as scientific 

 as you like, to judge accurately of the habits 

 of fish. I know they cannot judge the habits of 

 the drift fish. 



1590. We are all very ignorant, but do you 

 think those scientific people may know a little 

 more than oth ers ? — Perhaps they do ; a man should 

 do if his knowledge is worth anything at all. 



Lord Heneage. 



1591. You represent the longshore fisher- 

 men, and the longshore fishermen only pursue 

 their trade within territorial waters ? — That is 

 true. 



1592. Therefore it is only as regards the 

 territorial watei s that you are giving evidence 

 to-day ? — Quite so. 



1593. Therefore so far as the Bill affects the 

 North Sea and outside the territorial waters, 

 we may take it that you dp not profess to speak ? 

 — Of course not. I do not propose to speak for 

 outside. 



1594. The territorial waters are under the 

 supervision of the various districts round the 

 coast ? — We have not got a district. 



1595. You have no district at present ? — And 

 we do not intend to have one if we can help it. 



1596. Are you aware of what the rules are in 

 the neighbouring districts with regard to 

 shrimpers ? — No, I cannot say what they are. 



1597. But have you heard that they have 

 done the shrimpers any great harm ? — I do not 

 think there is so much shrimping by trawlers at 

 other places along the coast as there is from 

 Yarmouth to Southwold. I think that is the 

 principal shrimping ground for the shrimps on 

 the east coast. I know the shrimping at Lynn, 

 but I believe the Lynn shrimpers are principally 

 out of territorial waters, 



1598. But if you have a District Fishery 

 Board, and they make rules, or if in their 

 a.bsence the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries 

 make the rules the same as they are in other 

 places, would you have any right to complain, 

 do you think ? — Perhaps the rules and byelaws 

 made in other distiicts might not be applicable 

 to our district. You see one set of byelaws or 

 rules might be very beneficial to one particular 

 district, but might be very detrimental to 

 another. 



1599. Will you take it from me that the 

 different fishery boards round the coast have 

 made rules wherever they thoi.ght it necessary 



Lord Heneage — continued. 



to prevent the destruction of undersized fish ?^ 

 Perhaps so. 



1600. Are you aware that, notwithstanding- 

 those rules, in the Lancashire district 50,000L 

 worth of shrimps were landed last year ? — I am 

 not cognisant of it. 



1601. But if that is the case those byelaws 

 have not done a serious damage to the Lanca- 

 shire district ? — That I cannot answer for ; I do 

 not know what the state of the fishing is. If I 

 was acquainted with the state of the fishing I 

 could give you a direct answer, but I cannot, 

 give vou an answer on an assumption. 



1602. You can only speak for your own^ 

 district, and you say that you want to be free • 

 whilst everybody else is under byelaws ? — Wo 

 like to have a free hand, it is true, and there is 

 unanimous opposition against any legislation of 

 that character right along the coast from 

 Yarmouth. 



1603. Then you stated that the trawling in- 

 dustry, in asking for this legislation, is. 

 doing so from a selfish motive ? — I think so. 



1604. Are you aware that there is a great 

 diminution of fish m the North Sea and in other 

 places ? — I know we have had a very fair supply 

 at Lowestoft. 



1605. But are you aware that there has been 

 a very great diminution of fish for a considerable 

 number of years ? — I behove there has been. 



1606. Is not fish a food of the people ? — 

 Quite so, 



1607. And is it not in your opinion neces- 

 sary that that food should be protected against 

 this wasteful destruction of young fish ? — If you 

 can protect one portion of the community with- 

 out mjurjng another portion of the community I 

 would say, do so, but I do not see why you 

 should destroy one large portion of the com- 

 munity for the benefit of others. I believe in 

 the live-and-let-live system. 



1608. But how would the prohibition of the 

 catching of small fish in the districts from which 

 the larger fish come, or ought to come, interfere 

 with you within territorial waters, when trawlers; 

 are not allowed to fish there, either steam or 

 sail ? — I do not think any legislation would be 

 so injurious provided the restriction was made 

 that fish under a certain size should not be sold. 

 If you prohibited the sale I think there would 

 be less objection than if you prohibited the 

 landing. 



1609. You are aware that under the Bill the- 

 Board is entitled to order the sizes which they 

 think best ? — It does not state so in the Bill. 



1610. They have a full discretion under the 

 Bill ? — The Bill gives the Board absolute power 

 to do just what they like. If you have a large 

 and influential organisation come and approach 

 the Department, the Board of Agriculture and 

 Fisheries perhaps might listen more to them 

 than to others. 



1611. Are you aware that that is exactly the 

 fear that we have on the other side ? — I admit 

 that it cuts both ways. You know money is. 

 power, and money is very powerful, and 

 monetary influence we find is a very great factor 

 in all legislation. Wherever the most money 

 is, that is the most powerful factor in carrying- 

 legislation. That has been our experience. 



1612. You 



