92 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



11 March 1904.] 



Mr. D. Meabns. 



[Continued. 



Chairman — continued. 



found on the Fisher Banks of good size ? —That 

 is the report of the experiments. 



1692. That would be good evidence to show 

 that the more you protect the small fish on the 

 eastern grounds the better the chance of an 

 increased number of full-sized fish on the Fisher 

 Banks ? — That is so. They do not come from 

 the eastern grounds into our district ; the water 

 is too deep for them, but they migrate from 

 their own grounds — they are supposed to do — 

 from banks in Holland, and go to the Great 

 Fisher Banks. 



1693. Now, turning to Grimsby and Hull, the 

 trawlers from those ports do go to the eastern 

 grounds and do catch a large quantity of under- 

 sized fish ? — Very largely. 



1694. Are you acquainted with the Grimsby 

 market ? — Yes. 



1695. Have you seen many undersized flat 

 fish landed there ?— Hundreds and hundreds of 

 boxes of them, monthly and weekly. 



1696. Do you agree with witnesses who have 

 come from Hull and Aberdeen, that if a self- 

 denying ordinance were imposed upon them 

 that they should not go to those grounds, they 

 would gladly accept it ?— I think it would be a 

 beneficial thing for them, and I think they have 

 satisfied themselves that it is the only way to 

 protect their own interests. 



1697. This Bill, you are aware, deals only with 

 flat fish, and therefore I will not trouble you for 

 any evidence with regard to round fish, though I 

 believe you are of opinion that round fish are 

 also being over-caught ? — Of round fish we have 

 occasionally large shots in Aberdeen, but I am 

 glad to say that the trawl-owners are presently 

 engaged in considering the question of enlarging 

 the size of the mesh ot the net, so that the small 

 haddocks which absorb the market and bring 

 down the prices may escape. 



1698. You say that the s^all haddocks bring 

 down the prices. I suppose the same thing may 

 be said of the small flat fish, that the small flat 

 flsh bring down the prices ? — Yes. 



1699. And at the same time do not give any 

 material increase to the food of the people ? — 

 None whatever ; the 8-inch plaice is not worth 

 the fuel to cook it ; it is only when it comes to 

 about 10 inches that it begins to gather flesh, 

 and from that up to about 16 or 17 inches it is 

 fit for human food. 



1700. Supposing that an Aberdeen trawler 

 found that sne had a large catch of undersized 

 fish for which there was no market in Aberdeen 

 — and you say there is none — would she go to a 

 continental port to dispose of it ? — I do not 

 think so. 



1701. You have never heard of that ? — I have 

 never heard of any going with flat fish ; they go, 

 as I said, for large haddocks, and take them to 

 those ports during the time of the herring fishing. 



1702. "Would they go to Grimsby ?— They 

 might go to Grimsby, but we have never had 

 any knowledge of the Aberdeen vessels going 

 there with the undersized fish. 



1703. Do the foreign vessels that fish in the 

 Moray Firth ever land their catch in England ? 

 — Yes, in Grimsby very largely. 



1704. With regard to the limit, what do you 

 think would be a size limit for plaice which 



Cha irman — continued, 

 would make it not worth the while of Grimsby 

 and Hull trawlers to go to the eastern grounds ? 

 — If the limit were 8 inches I do not think that 

 any trawlers would care about going for the 

 purpose of bringing anything into the market 

 10 inches of course is a limit which Avould 

 enable them to bring material that would be 

 fit for human food : but I think that the other, 

 the 8 inches limit, would prevent their going fo 

 catch undersized fish. 



1705. You think that if they were allowed to 

 land the 10-inch plaice, the}' might yet find it 

 worth their while to go to those grounds ? — Yes. 



1706. What size would make it absolutely 

 unremunerative ? — Ten inches. 



1707. Would you be prepared to have a 

 certain size hmit in one port and another size 

 limit in another port ? — It is a difficult matter 

 to differentiate between the places by a Bill such 

 as is before us at the present moment. I think 

 the Board ought to have full powers to deal 

 with that question themselves. 



1708. It is not suggested that any material 

 quantity of small fish from the eastern grounds 

 is brought into Lynn, into the Wash ? — I do not 

 think so. 



1709. Therefore, if the Bill did not apply, or 

 if the Order of the Board did not apply to 

 Lynn and did apply to other ports, it would be 

 effectual ? — It would. 



1710. Now, some witnesses have expressed 

 the opinion that it would be more difficult to 

 prevent the landing than the sale, ■end that a 

 very large staff of men would have to be pro- 

 vided to search every vessel ; what is your 

 view as to that ? — I do not think that is at all 

 correct. The fish are all landed in boxes of 

 about a hundredweight each, and the salesmen 

 go over them, and the buyers will take very 

 good C4re that they will not have to do with 

 undersized fish ; they would not be able to 

 smuggle them in. 



1711. The crews are shareholders to some 

 extent in the venture ? — Yes. 



1712. And they would not care to be fined for 

 smuggling ?— They would not like to bring the 

 material in if it could not be sold. 



1713. AH that would happen would be that 

 they would put them overboard ? — They would 

 put them overboard ; they would not catch them. 



1714. So far as Scotch opinion is concerned, 

 do you think that the Bill would cause any ill- 

 feeling ? — No. I think that the Bill would be 

 the means of reducing any ill-feehng that there 

 may be at the present moment, because 

 there are certain seasons of the year when 

 the Moray Firth is hardly worth the pains 

 of fishing for plaice; and under those cir- 

 cumstances, if Scotland and England were 

 both put in the position of not being able to 

 sell the material that Avas brought in, it would 

 be the means of reducing to a very considerable 

 extent the Iriction which exists between the two 

 classes of fishermen. 



1715. I presume that you would be in favour 

 of extending the prohibition of landing of such 

 fish caught in the Moray Firth to England as 

 well as Scotland ? — Most distinctly. I am 

 strongly in favour of preventing the Jandmg of 



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