SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



99 



11 March 1904.] 



Mr. W. H. PiBEL. 



[Continued. 



Chairman — continued. 



it is quite natural lor us to expect that the 

 trade should be consulted before they went 

 to any extremes. 



1859. Does the Bill give any power to the 

 Board to make regulations fo'- closing any areas 

 outside the territorial Umits ? — No. 



1860. The Scotch Fishery Board has such 

 power ? — Yes. 



1861. And therefore it would be impossible, 

 would it not, under this Bill, for the Board of 

 Agriculture and Fisheries to close a large area 

 such as the Moray Firth ? — That is so. 



1862. Therefore I may perhaps venture to ask 

 whether these fears are not somewhat ground- 

 less ? — They are not altogether on that account. 

 What we are afraid of is that the Board may be 

 led away by the biological evidence to do some- 

 thing that may not perhaps be altogether prac- 

 tical. We are afraid they may raise the limit to 

 such an extent that it will enable the foreigner 

 to catch fish, good saleable fish, that we 

 could not take. But still I have not any fear ; 

 I am only saying that that is the fear that other 

 people have. 



1863. But the Board is a Government Depart- 

 ment and is amenable to the influence of Parlia- 

 ment ? — ^Yes. 



1864. And from the experience of the past 

 perhaps you would agree that the whole of the 

 agricultural community, who also are subjected 

 to perhaps somewhat similar restrictions at the 

 hands of the Board, are of opinion that those 

 restrictions have been wisely exercised and have 

 resulted m general benefit to the whole of the 

 trade of agriculture ? — That is so. 



1865. Now I think you said that you had 

 agents in French and Belgian ports ? — Yes. 



1866. And you said just now that there was a 

 fear lest regulations made by the Board might 

 give advantages to foreigners over our own sub- 

 jects ? — Yes. 



1867. Under the Bill there would be power, 

 would there not, to prevent the landuig of 

 undersized fish fi'om vessels of every sort, size, 

 and shape sailing under a foreign flag ? — 

 Yes. 



1868. And you would desire to see those 

 orders carried into effect ? — I should. 



1869. Do you think if the result of the limit 

 of size were to prevent the British ships from 

 going to fish in the eastern grounds, there 

 would still be gTcat fishing in those grounds by 

 foreign vessels ? — Not if the size was smaU 

 enough. If our size was over 8 inches it 

 seems to me that our vessels not going there 

 would increase the size of the fish, and it would 

 enable the foreigners to go there ; because though 

 there is practically no sale (that is in the German 

 markets, principally — in the German and 

 Dutch, but principally in the German) for any 

 plaice less than 8 inches, there is a very large 

 sale for plaice that would be 9 and 10 inches, 

 and very cheap railway rates indeed. 



1870. But you would hope that the result of 

 restrictive legislation in England might be to 

 lead foreign countries to pass legislation im- 

 posing greater restrictions even than those 

 that are now imposed in foreign countries ? — I 

 am quite satisfied of it in my (^wn mind. 



(0.10.) 



Chairman — continued. 



1871. With regard to the catch and the pro- 

 portion of good fish to small, we were told that 

 m former days the sailing trawlers caught about 

 160 tons a year. Would you say that that was 

 about right ? — I never calculated out the weight. 

 I could not be sure about it. 



1872. But at any rate would you say that 

 taking the increased catching power of the 

 steam trawler, the steam trawler catches as much 

 in proportion as the old sailer used to do ? — Un- 

 doubtedly not. 



1873. Therefore the quantity of fish must 

 have have been diminished ? — There is no ques- 

 tion of it. 



1874. But the fishing power has very greatly 

 increased ? — Yes, greatly. 



1875. And you think that if the trawlers 

 could be prevented from taking the fish on the 

 nursery grounds, the supply would very rapidly 

 increase all over the North Sea ? — Yes. I could 

 give you an instance- of that if you liked. 



1876. If you please. — For many years, when 

 there were sailing trawlers, it paid them to go 

 into all the little holes and banks to take the 

 soles ; but when the sailing trawlers became 

 superseded by steam trawlers, it did not pay the 

 steam trawlers to go to these small holes ; con- 

 sequently the sailing vessels became very much 

 less in number. While the sailing trawlers were 

 there they fished out the soles until they became 

 very short and very dear ; and when the sailing 

 trawlers became less in number the soles were 

 left alone, and we have bad an increase these 

 last three or four years now in the supply of 

 soles ; and the same thing would follow with the 

 plaice, and much more so, because the plaice 

 reproduces so much more quickly than the 

 sole. 



1877. It has been suggested as an alternative 

 that we should endeavour to get an international 

 agreement to prevent those vessels from fishing 

 in those waters ; no doubt 3^011 think it impos- 

 sible to obtain that ? — It is impossible. There is 

 only one way you can regulate it, and that is in 

 the question of size. You could not police such 

 areas ; it would be impossible. 



1878. Aad the cost would be too 

 Yes. 



1879. Now, with regard to the value of these 

 undersized fish to the retail fish trade in London, 

 would the stopping of the landing of these fish 

 have any influence in decreasing the supply of 

 food to the poorer classes? — I am sure it would 

 not. The greater part of these small plaice are 

 thrown away, it being impossible to consume 

 them in any way or shape or form. Even the 

 fried fish vendors, v/ho can use the smallest fish, 

 say that they cannot fry the greater portion of 

 these small plaice. If the trawlers were prevented 

 from going on those grounds they would have 

 to go somewhere else, and they certainly would 

 catch quite as great a weight of fish, probabh', 

 of other sorts, that would be of much more use 

 to the general public. 



1880. Do you think that the byelaws pro- 

 hibing fishing within the territorial Avaters are 

 enforced as strictly as thoy might be ? — I think 

 they try to enforce them, but they could be en 

 forced more strongly 



n2 ' 1881. Their 



great ?- 



