[ 109 ] 



Die Jovis, 17° Martii 1904. 



PRESKNT : 



Marquess of Abercorn (Duke of 



Abeecorn). 

 Earl of Onslow, g.c.m.g. 

 Earl of Yarborough. 



Lord Meldrum (Marquess of 



Huntly). 

 Lord Tweedmouth. 

 Lord Heneage. 



The Right Hon. the Earl of ONSLOW, g.c.m.g., in the Chair. 



Mr. JOHN FELL is called in ; and Examined as follows : 



ChairTnan. 



2035. You are Chairman of the Lancashire 

 and Western Sea Fisheries Joint Committee, are 

 you not ? — Yes. 



2036. Have you seen the Bill that is before 

 their Lordships' house ? — I have read it care- 

 fuUy. 



2037. And do you think that orders made 

 under it will have the effect of preserving at any 

 rate a certain number of undersized flat fish 

 round our coast? — I hold the opinion, after 

 carefully considering the Bill, that it will be a 

 great advantage to have the Bill in the first 

 instance in the present form, and entrust the 

 power of gradually dealing with the question of 

 undersized sea fish to a central authority, the 

 Board of Agriculture and Fisheries. 



2038. You observe that the offence which is 

 provided against in the Bill is not that of selling, 

 but that of landing undersized fish ? — Yes, I 

 had the other day a meeting of the General 

 Purposes Committee of my Sea Fisheries Com- 

 mittee, and they went very carefully through 

 the whole of this matter, and they were very 

 strongly of opinion that, in addition to landing, 

 the landing should be clearly for sale, because, 

 for instance, take trawl nets, drift nets, stake 

 nets, there are a certain number of types of net 

 in which fish are inevitably landed and cannot 

 be returned to the sea ; and, therefore, I think 

 the words "for sale" should certainly be intro- 

 duced as well as " the landing." 



2039. Do I rightly understand you to mean 

 that you wish to prohibit the landing if the 

 landing is for sale ; or do you wish to prohibit 

 the sale as well as the landing? — I should 

 prohibit the sale as well as the landing of under- 

 sized fish. If the size of the fish were regulated 

 by any Order, I should prohibit the sale as well 

 as the landing. 



Chairman — continued. 



-I think in 



2040. In all parts of England 

 all parts of England. 



2041. Then the effect of that would be, would 

 it not, that if it were sought to prevent the steam 

 trawlers from going to the nursery grounds in 

 the Eastern part of the North Sea and other 

 trawlers or shrimpers were allowed to land 

 undersized flat fish, the penalty on the sale 

 would attach not only to \he fish landed from 

 the eastern banks, but to all fish landed from 

 anywhere ? — That would be- so. 



2042. Then would it not be simpler to at once 

 revert to what was proposed in the Bill of 1900 

 and prohibit the sale in all times and at all 

 places of undersized fish ? — I thmk that that 

 ultimately should come about. So far as my 

 knowledge goes, which is not thoroughly prac- 

 tical, I am of opinion, and my committee were 

 of the same opinion, that this is a matter that, 

 will take some time to develop, and I think 

 eventually the absolute regulations which will 

 be settled may take a few years to bring about. 

 We have of course on our west side nothing like 

 the number of deep-sea trawlers which exists 

 in the North Sea, there is nothing like the same 

 fishing interests; at the same time we have a 

 very large number of trawlers, I think there are 

 35 from Fleetwood, about 18 steam trawlers from 

 Liverpool ; Hoylake, in Cheshire, on part of our 

 coast, has over 40 trawlers, and there are about 

 25 more trawlers in our district. These form 

 the fleet of trawlers in the Lancashire and 

 Western District or connected with it. 



2043. Perhaps I may take it that what you 

 Avish to convey to the Committee is, that you 

 would desire not that the Board of Agriculture 

 and Fisheries should at once prohibit the sale of 

 undersized flat fish, but that they should be 

 given power to do so if hereafter public opinion 



should 



