no 



MINUTES OF KVIDENCE TAKEN UEFORE THE 



17 March 1904.J 



Mr. Fell. 



[Continued. 



Chairman — continued, 

 should appear to be, if I nia}- use the expression 

 ediv ated up to that point ? — That is exactly my 

 viow. 



204-1-. It has been suggested by more than one 

 witness that possibly something might be ar- 

 rived at in the direction aimed at by the Bill, 

 it gioater powers were given for the regulation 

 of the mesh. Have you any opinion to offer 

 upoa that? — Of course the Sea Fisheries Com- 

 niittees who deal with the regulations of the 

 territorial area, endeavour to save the small fish 

 wholly by the process of a regulated mesh, and 

 I may say that from what I hear from the 

 fishermen themselves, they I'esent very much 

 the position of the steam trawlers and the deep- 

 sea trawler who probably fish along the line of 

 our territorial area or sea fisher}- district with, 

 perhaps, an inch mesh. As our fishermen say, 

 these deep-sea trawlers are able to clear up 

 everything that we are aiding in the develop- 

 ment of within our own district. 



2045. Or closely adjoining it ? — Or closely ad- 

 joining it. 



2046. But would not the result of making 

 the mesh larger be the escape of a great number 

 of fully-sized round fish ? — I do not think it 

 would. The superintendent of my district is 

 here, and he has very practical and complete 

 experience on all these questions^— much more 

 than I have; but, as far as I have read the 

 statistics that we have from time to time 

 furnished to us, I do not think it would interfere 

 with the capture of fair-sized round fish. 



2047. Are there any well-known nurseries 

 near your district ? — That, again, is a question 

 to which Mr. Dawson, the Superintendent, will 

 reply much better than T cm. There are 

 nurseries, and I know there is one place which 

 he will probably detail to you — the most impor- 

 tant place — between the coast of Lancashire and 

 the Isle of Man, which is frequented by soles 

 for breeding purposes, and which, during the 

 time the soles are on the ground for breeding 

 purposes, is simply harried to death by trawlers. 



2048. Those, of course, are not undersized 

 fish, but mature fish ? — Yes, they are mature 

 fish. 



2049. How far is that from the territorial 

 limit ? — I may be right, perhaps, in putting it 

 at 25 to 30 miles from the territorial limit. 



2050. Have j'oti any bye-laws restricting the 

 operations of shrimping within your district? — 

 Yes. "WTien the district was originally formed 

 after the passing of the Sea Fisheries Eegulation 

 Act 1888, we held an inquiry throughout 

 Lancashire, and altered very materially the area 

 of the shrimping trawler ; the shrimping trawl 

 had become very minute. 



2051. The area or the mesh? — I mean the 

 mesh — the mesh had become very minute. At 

 the same time the shrimp trawl takes an enor- 

 mous quantity of undersized fish — hundreds, if 

 not thousands. 



2052. Would it not be considered a great 

 hardship by shrimpers if any regulations were 

 made which interfered with their industry ? — 

 There, again, Mr. Dawson ^vill inform you much 

 bitter than I can; but we have a section of 

 li-hermen who reside on Morecambe Bay, and 



that your 

 inclined to 



area is 

 think it 



Chairman. 

 who have voluntarily on their own account 

 established a process of riddling their shrimps 

 when they capture them (I cannot speak of the 

 matter practically) which they have adopted, 

 and which must be a saving of the young fish, 

 and which might be a very proper and necessary 

 regulation to all shrimpers. 



2053. I think as compared with other Fisheries 

 Committees, you have greater financial resources 

 than most of them ? — Yes, Lancashire and 

 Cheshire and the whole of the Boroughs oi 

 Lancashire after the County Councils were 

 formed fell into line with this idea of the Sea 

 Fishing Committee ; and therefore I think our 

 total rate available is about 30 millions on 

 which we assess. 



2054. What is the annual expenditure of your 

 Fisheries Committee, and what is the assessment 

 rate in the pound ? — We are not allowed to 

 assess our district beyond 1 1-1 6d. in the 

 pound, and that 1 l-16d. in the pound brings in 

 about 9,000^. a year, I think. 



2055. That is very much more than 1 1-lQd: in 

 the pound would raise in most of the fishery 

 districts ? — Yes. 



2056. Have you any vessels patrolling your 

 waters ? — Yes, we have a steamer, a very admir- 

 able vessel, a police steamer, and we have about 

 seven sailing boats at various stations, with 

 bailiffs who guard the district and watch the 

 observance of the bye-laws. The steamer moves 

 about from point to point. 



2057. Do you consider 

 sufficiently policed ? — I am 

 is at present by means of the steamer ; the deep 

 sea trawler does not venture much into our 

 limits. He has been captured in the act of 

 doing so, and the magistrates have inflicted 

 substantial fines, and I think they are now very 

 careful. 



2058. Have you received any assistance from 

 gunboats of the Royal Navy ? — I think we do 

 now receive some aid from the naval stations on 

 the coast, but not much; and I think what we 

 do receive is quite recent, 



2059. At one time there Avas a good deal of 

 expression of desire on the part of Fisheries 

 Committees that they should have more assis- 

 tance. Was there not from the gunboats of the 

 Navy ? — Yes, there was. 



2060. Has that been given ? — That again Mr. 

 Dawson will give more practically than I can. 



2061. Does the Firth of Clyde adjoin your 

 district ? — The Firth of Clyde does not adjoin 

 our district, but it adjoins the north section of 

 the Irish Channel, and the action of the law in 

 preventing trawlers going within the Firth of 

 Clyde has injured the deep sea trawler of our 

 district very materially, and has also, so far 

 as we can observe, thinned the upper part 

 of the Irish Channel, because the deep 

 sea trawlers have only been able to work 

 there. The Firth of Clyde though is fished by 

 trawlers Avho hail from Fleetwood but fly the 

 Danish flag; they come I think in the early 

 part of the year and fish it all through the 

 summer and late out to autumn, and so will 

 capture a very large number of fish. But the 

 deep sea trawlers who hail from Liverpool, Fleet- 



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