112 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCK TAKEN BEFORE THE 



17 March 1904] 



Mr Fell. 



[Continued. 



Lord Ifeneage — continued. 



2078. I may take it that you are also of 

 opinion, as that the trade generally are, that 

 under those circumstances the Government 

 would be in a better position to ask other nations 

 to enter into an International Convention on 

 which permanent legislation might be passed ? — 

 I am quite of that opinion. 



2079. I beheve that is a very recent opinion 

 in both cases ? — That may be so. My original 

 idea was that it would be desirable to limit the 

 sizes definitely by statute; but I have gone 

 closely into that and I think that on the \vhole 

 it would be much better to entrust it to the 

 Department. 



2080. That is the change oi feeling that has 

 generally come over the trade, that instead of 

 having a fixed limit in the Bill you should give 

 power to the Department at present, so that 

 they may learn by experience ? — I attended a 

 large meeting of the General Purposes Commit- 

 tee of the Lancashire and Western Sea Fisheries 

 Committee on Friday last, and there were pre- 

 sent at that nieeting a great many fishermen 

 actively engaged, and men connected with 

 trawlers, and they were all unanimously in 

 favour of the scheme of the Bill. 



2081. You spoke with regard to Sale; I did 

 not quite understand whether you meant that 

 the Bill should be qualified by the words, 

 " landing for sale," or whether you meant that 

 that the landing and the sale of fish should be 

 prohibited ? — I should use the words " landing 

 for sale," but I am not a draughtsman. 



2082. Then the " for sale " would be the quali- 

 fication of the offence ? — " For sale " would be 

 the qualification of the off'ence. 



2083. And would not be an additional offence ? 

 — No, not an additional off'ence. 



Lord Tiveednnouth 



2084. I suppose what you mean really is, that 

 in using certain nets, when you draw the net 

 you cannot help landing these small fish ? — 

 That is so. Take the draft net that is usual on 

 our coast ; they bring out on the beach or shore 

 large quantities of fish, and those fish seldom go 

 back again. 



Lord Heneage. 



2085. I am only ti-jing to elucidate your 

 opinion. You see the difference between " land- 



Lord Heneage — continued. 



ing for sale " and " landing and sale " ? — Yes. 



2086. Under the Bill of 1900 the words were : 

 " No person shall import, export, buy, sell, ex- 

 pose for sale, consign for sale, or have in his 

 possession for sale " ; are those the words you 

 wish to see in? — "Have in his possession for 

 sale." 



2087. Has there been much loss to the 

 shrimpers in your district on account of 

 your bye-law ? — I do not think so. I 

 think the shrimping industry, I might say, 

 is in too thriving a condition. I only judge 

 by this that we know what number of boats 

 they build, and the very considerable industry 

 which it is. I think the shrimpers do not com- 

 plain at all. There is one section in the Lan- 

 cashire Shrimpers who are rather troublesome, 

 but the great Dulk of the shrimpers on the Lan- 

 cashire coast, where they mainly are, are a very 

 thriving class. 



2088. Is it a fact that they landed over 

 50,000i. of shrimps last year ? — My superinten- 

 dent will be able to tell you that, but I think 

 about 50,000Z. is the right figure. 



Chairman. 



2089. Your idea, is it not, that it might be a 

 hardship upon a man who could not avoid land- 

 ing small fish, if there were a penalty attached to 

 it ; is not that your view ? — My view is that if he 

 lands them ? a shrimper for instance might take 

 home small fish. I d!o not think that he should 

 be necessarily prevented from doing that ; but if 

 that fish were undersized fish, and were exposed 

 tor sale, then there should be a penalty. 



2090. Under the elastic provision of the Bill, 

 of course, it would be perfectly possible to exempt 

 some places if it were thought desirable to do 

 so ? — Yes. 



2091. Then with regard to the size of the 

 mesh, you said, I think, that there had been a 

 remarkable increase in soles ? — Yes. 



2092. May it not be that the sole is the first to 

 be affected by an increase in the size of the mesh, 

 for this reason, that it escapes more easily than 

 the other fish? — I believe that is why it has 

 come about that we have had an increase. The 

 6-inch mesh will capture a very small plaice, but 

 not a very small sole. 



The Witness is directed to withdraw. 



Mr. ROBERT ARTHUR DAWSOX is called in; and Examined as follows: 



Chairmayi. 



2093. You are an officer, are you not, of the 

 district that Mr. Fell is Chairman of,--the Lan- 

 cashire and Western Sea Fisheries District ? — 

 Yes. 



2094. You have heard the questions addressed 

 to him, and there were some points on which he 

 informed the Committee that you could give 

 better information than he could; perhaps you 

 will kindly extend and elaborate the evidence 

 which he gave ? — About the increase in soles, 

 there is no doubt from general observation and 

 judying from the fishermen's catches during the 

 last'two or three years, that soles have increased 



Chairman — continued. 



in number, A great deal of that, I think, is 

 due to the enlarged mesh in trawl nets, not only 

 perhaps in the district itself, but many of the 

 fishermen, I think, are now thinking more of 

 the value of their fisheries, and outside as well 

 as inside the district, especially in the summer, 

 they are using the same mesh ; therefore in that 

 particular time to a certain extent the mesh 

 both outside the district and inside has had a 

 good effect. 



2095. Are there largo nursei-ies in the neit^h- 

 bourhood of your territorial waters ? — The Lan- 

 ca.shire and^Vestern Sea Fisheries Dist|[k;t, from 



^ the 



