SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



113 



IT March 1904.] 



Mr. Dawson. 



[Continued. 



Chairman — continued, 

 the northern extremity down to the Menai 

 Straits, is practically a nursery; in fact, the 

 nursery is in the territorial waters for that part 

 of the Irish Sea. 



2096. In the territorial waters you say ? — Yes, 

 I mean ot course inside and just outside ; it is 

 along the land. 



2097. But is it within the area of your bye- 

 laws ? — A great portion of it. 



2098. Then do I rightly gather that what you 

 would like would be an extension of your bye- 

 laws, if that could be done, to the waters adjacent 

 thereto, so as to protect the whole of those niir- 

 series ? — That would do great good. 



2099. Is their complaint of a falling off in the 

 size of the fish generally ? — No, if you are speak- 

 ing of soles. 



2100. No, — of plaice ? — As regards plaice, they 

 are certainly not increasing, and in my opinion 

 they are certainly falling off in size, what are 

 taken. 



2101. Is there an increasing disposition on 

 the part of the trade on the West Coast to sub- 

 mit to restrictions with a view to increasing the 

 size of the fish ? — I presume you are alluding to 

 the fishermen. 



2102. I am alluding to the fishermen of 

 course ? — I think there is. It is only the other day, 

 or a little time ago, since a petition was pre- 

 sented to the Lancashire and "Western Sea 

 Fisheries Committee, by the Hoylake deep sea 

 trawlers. These trawlers fish both inside and 

 outside the district, and they were perfectly 

 willing if they could use a 6-inch mesh the whole 

 year round west of Great Orme's Head, to use 

 that mesh both inside and outside the district. 



2103. You think that although they might 

 possibly not be prepared at this moment for a 

 hard and fast Act <jf Parliament preventing the 

 landing or sale of undersized fish, if you had a 

 an elastic measure the time may not be far dis- 

 tant when they may .3ome to petition the 

 Government to impose restrictions upon them 

 in the general interest ? — I think so. I think 

 the fishermen as a body would prefer a size limit 

 to a mesh limit, because the size would regulate 

 the mesh. 



2104. In drafting your bye-laws, I presume 

 you consult the fishermen, and what you do 

 you do in their interests and not against their in- 

 terests ? — That is so. The mode of procedure is 

 this : The bye-laws are drafted by the committee. 

 Then the committee hold inquiries in different 

 parts of the coast. They meet the fishermen, and I 

 think in all cases where a bye-law has been 

 confirmed by the Board of Trade, there have 

 been objections from certain fishermen on 

 different parts of the coast, and public inquiries 

 on all occasions have been held. 



2105. And generally you think the system 

 is approved of by the fishermen ? — The size of 

 the mesh do you mean ? 



2106. No, your system of making bye-laws, 

 inquiries, and , so forth ? — Yes ; but of course, 

 we always find some men that oppose them. 



2107. But are they in a minority ? — I could 

 not go as far as to say that. 



2108. About the shrimps, is it the fact that 

 50,000^ worth were landed last year in your 

 district ?— I cannot say as to last year, but I 



(0.10.) 



Chairman — continued. 



value the shrimping industry on the Lancashir® 

 and Cheshire coast as certainly between 

 40,000^. and 50,000i. a year. 



2109. Notwithstanding your bye-laws it is in a. 

 very flouishing condition ? — As regards the 

 quantity of shrimps taken, that is so. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



2110. With regard to the mesh, is it ever 

 said, when you get beyond a certain size of 

 mesh, that a big mesh acts as adversely 

 to the fish as a small one ? — There is not 

 the slightest doubt that a mesh of a certain 

 size riddles the undersized fish out. I have 

 some statistics here which I should be willing to 

 hand in. 



2111. If you please ? — For instance, here is 

 the result of a haul, one of the trials; there 

 are a number; I may perhaps read one. This 

 is a case of a trial with a trawl net of a 7 in. 

 mesh. The cod end of this net had a second 

 net of 4^ in. mesh laced round it in such a 

 manner that no fish could enter the latter 

 without having first passed through the meshes 

 of the trawl net of 7 in. mesh. The net was 

 down one hour and when the net was hauled 

 there were 683 flat fish in the net of 7 inches, 

 and 4,413 had passed through and were retained 

 in the net of 4^- inches; and on another haul 

 7,260 flat fish were riddled through. There are 

 a number of these experiments there. (Handing 

 in the Superintendent's Rej^cn'ts, July 31si 1894, 

 December 31si 1899, December 31s< 1903.) 



2112. But I have also heard it often said that 

 when you get a very big mesh the strain on the 

 net draws the mesh so close together that the 

 fish cannot get out. Is that your experience ? — 

 No, that is not our experience. 



2113. You understand what I mean: that the 

 strain on the net draws the mesh so close 

 together that the fish cannot get out ? — Yes, I 

 follow that. I have noticed it particularly, and 

 it is not my experience. 



2114. Though you have noticed a falling off 

 in the size of your plaice you have noticed no 

 falling off in their numbers ?— Yes, the catches 

 are not as large as they used to be ; the takes of 

 plaice in weight also are not as large. 



2115. Do you attribute that to overfishing, or 

 do you attribute it merely to the ordinary fluc- 

 tuation among fish ? — I attribute it certainly to 

 over-fishing. 



2116. By what, — by trawlers, or by stake 

 nets, or what ? — By both : principally by 

 trawlers, both inside trawlers and deep-sea 

 trawlers ; both the deep-sea sail ■ trawler, the 

 steam trawler, and the inshore fishermen as well ; 

 and especially in the nurseries. 



2117. Do you notice that the small fish are 

 in what you call the nurseries more especially at 

 certain seasons of the year? — Yes; we have the 

 small fish inside the district in greater quantities 

 in the summer months, and up to, say, the end 

 of November. 



2118. Would it be practicable to prohibit 

 fishing on any special grounds during certain 

 seasons of the year altogether? — That would be 

 I think rather difficult to carry out. 



'2119. On account of the policeing ? — On 

 account of the policeing. And then, if you t^ke 

 P a small 



