114 



JIINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



17 March 1904] 



Mr. Dawson. 



[Continued. 



Lord Tweedmonth — continued. 



a small area, the fish do not always stop on 

 that. For instance, you may go one week 

 and find it crowded with fish on a small 

 area, and the next week they may very easily 

 has'e moved, certainly some miles along the coast. 



2120. You were not very clear as to how the 

 regulations were accepted by the fishermen in 

 your district; do you think that the majority 

 of the fishermen are against these regulations? — 

 I do not think so ; I think they are not against 

 regulations. A number of the fishermen are 

 perfectly satisfied ; they want no change of any 

 kind. We allow a 6 inch mesh from June 1st 

 to 15th November in most parts of the district, 

 and a 7 inch mesh is enforced during the re- 

 mainder of the year. What many of them ask 

 for, and from different motives, is that the 6 inch 

 mesh should be allowed the whole year round. 

 That is, I think, the only objection that we have 

 at the present time to any of the bye-laws. 



2121. So far as the territorial waters are con- 

 cerned, the waters within your own district, do 

 you think that you havesuf3Scient power ah-eady 

 for aU practical purposes ? — Xo, personally I 

 think prohibiting the landing and sale of fish of 

 certain sizes is the way to stop the decrease. 

 We enforce certain sizes of meshes, but of course 

 outside the boimdary line of the District they 

 can use what mesh they like ; and as a matter 

 ol fact many fishermen when they get a chance 

 come inside. My opinion is that so long as the 

 market is open for the sale of undersized fish, 

 fishermen will take them. For instance, in my 

 district we have by-laws for the purpose of pre- 

 venting the taking of midersized fish, both shell 

 fish and sea fish, yet we have had as many as 

 906 prosecutions, which I think shows at once 

 that so long as the market is open for the sale 

 thev will take them. 



2122. Then you do not think that the pro- 

 hibition of landing is sufficient ; — I do not. _ 



2123. But you are quite clear about prohibiting 

 the sale also ? — I am perfectly clear about that. 



212-4. Do you desire to have this power for 

 vour District Committee, or do you think that 

 it should be exercised only by the central 

 authoritv? — I think there ought to be a 

 universal law for the whole country and that it 

 should not be Umited to certain districts. 



2125. You think that any such regulation 

 should be appUed to the whole country and 

 should be applied to all classes of fishermen ?— 



I do. 



2126. Without any restriction of certain 

 cl;^3ses. — Yes, without any discrimination in 

 any shape or form. Will you allow me to make 

 an allusion about the Clyde ?— I think you asked 

 Mr. FeU a question about it. 



2127. If vou please. — The question of the 

 Clyde is, of course, a very very sore point among 

 trawlers on the Lancashu-e coast, and for this 

 reason: Before the Clyde was closed, many of 

 the trawlers used to "leave what we call the 

 home oTounds for three or four months in the 

 vear and used to fish in the Clyde. That gave 

 the home grounds a rest. But now they are 

 not permitted to fish in the Clyde, and of course 

 it makes so much more fishing on the home 

 cTounds, and since the steam trawlers com- 

 menred on the coast, several of them fish here 



Lord Tweedmouth — continued. 



as well. And yet the foreign fishermen can 

 come into the Clyde and can take the fish 

 from there and bring it into Fleetwood. 

 Chairman. 



2128. But they cannot sell it in Scotland? — 

 No, they land it at Fleetwood. 



2129. They cannot land it in Scotland ? — No. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



2130. And yet in spite of this increased fishing 

 due to the closing of the Clyde, you notice a 

 distinct increase in the number of soles ? — Yes, 

 but not in plaice. 



Marquess of Huntly. 



2131. You do not approve of regulations 

 which permit foreigners to fish in these waters 

 that are closed, and not our own fishermen ? — 

 No, I look upon it that the ground is not closed. 

 The ground does not get the benefit of being 

 closed, and the English fishermen are prohibited 

 fi'om taking the fish. 



Duke of Ahercorn. 



2132. Would you have one uniform limit 

 along the whole of the coast with regard to the 

 capture of undersized fish ? — Yes. 



2133. And can you tell the Committee what 

 you think the proper limit should be for, say, 

 undersized plaice ?— It is rather a diflficult 

 matter to go into. I may say a petition 

 was presAited some years ago by the fish sales- 

 men of Lancashire to the Committee, pointing 

 out the fact that the fisheries were decreasing 

 and asking that the capture of fish under certain 

 sizes should not be allowed. Would you like 

 me to hand in a copy of their petition ? 



Chairman : Yes, if you please. [The same i? 

 handed in.'] 



Witness also handed in several Lancashire 

 Sect, Fishing Laboratory Reports containing 

 Vitality experiments. 



Duke of Abercorn. 



2134. If this Bill related only to the capture 

 and not the sale of undersized fish, do you 

 think the fishermen in your part of the country 

 would be able to evade the law by getting fish 

 landed elsewhere and sending them to market ? 

 — I feel sure they would try, and in many cases 

 they would succeed. 



2135. In regard to the increase in the capture 

 of soles, have any new fishing grounds been lately 

 entered upon by the deep sea trawlers ; because 

 the larger the trawler is, I mean the steam trawler, 

 the deeper the water he is able to fish ? — No, 

 there have been no new grounds with regard to 

 our sailing trawlers. There is no doubt that the 

 steam trawlers go iurther afield now than was 

 the case years ago. 



2136. But do not you think that possiblv this 

 increase in the capture of soles may be partly 

 due at any rate to these large trawlers 

 entering upon new grounds ? — No ; and my 

 reason for saying that is that the sailing deep 

 sea trawlers are fishing on the same grounds as 

 they used to do, and bring in more soles. 



Chairman. 



2137. Do you think that it is necessary, in the 

 general interest of sea fishing, to pre^rent the 



sale 



