120 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



17 March 1904.] 



Mr. Gaestang. 



[Continued. 



Chah-vian — continued. 



in the case of steam trawlers I do not believe 

 a large proportion would survive. 



2195. Have you any opinion as to tke vitality 

 of plaice? — These details are doAvn. in our pro- 

 gramme for the presc'ut year. We have not any 

 figures to show you on this point at the .present 

 time. Last j^ear our investigation was devoted 

 to the preliminary survey of the whole of the 

 North Sea and the extent of the area is so large 

 that we could not enter upon -these special in- 

 vestigations in the first year. 



2196. You have not made any experiments 

 which would lead you to challeage the evidence 

 given to the Comiaittee that plaice has consider- 

 able vitality ? — My experience is of .a general 

 character; it is not statistically compiled, but 

 my experience is, that in order to make sure of 

 plaice be'.ng in healthy condition for maiiking ex.- 

 perimtnt-, we have to trawl for a very 

 short time, not more than an hour, and at 

 once to put these fishes into tanks of 

 water; other"wise if they are left on^ deck for 

 half an hour their vitality is very consid- 

 erably impaired, and our experiments rendered 

 useless unless we take these precautions. 

 I think that every one familiar with the 

 practice on board trawlers must feel convinced 

 that whatever regulations are imposed, the 

 fishermen themselves Avill not devote their first 

 attention to liber.ating the small fish and 

 throwing them overboard ; they will go on with 

 cleaning the net and sorting and gutting the 

 fish before they attend to these little fishes ; and 

 the consequence is that a large proportion of the 

 fishes must die before they are thrown over- 

 board. 



2197. If you were told that a plaice had lived 

 for 10 hours out of water, would you be inclined 

 to doubt the veracity of the statement ? — It 

 would depend, to some extent, on the size, and 

 to some extent on the condition in Avhich it was 

 caught, and to some extent on the conditions in 

 which it was lying on the deck. If it was kept 

 in a damp place, with water on the deck, and m 

 no great heat and no bright sun, I should not 

 doiAt that plaice could live for 10 hours out of 

 water. 



2198. You would like to give the Committee 

 some information, I think, as to the work which 

 the Marine Biological Association is doing in 

 collecting statistics and so forth. I understand 

 vou have done little and you are not able to 

 give any very decided opinion from such ex- 

 periments as have been already made. I think 

 you said so just now, did you not ? — I am aware 

 that when this Bill Avas introduced in your 

 Lordships' House, you made some remarks 

 about the small amount of work my Association 

 had done in determining the size of fish 

 on the fishing grounds; but I think this 

 remark must have been due to some mis- 

 apprehension, because the bulk of our time 

 diu-ing the last year and a half has been 

 devoted to this very point. Our vessel the 

 " Huxley," a converted steam trawler, has been 

 persistently engaged in the North Sea and fish- 

 mo- different parts to determine this special 

 po'int. We were not charged with any responsi- 

 bilitv for making any market observations of 

 fish landed by vessels, and so far as responsibility 



Glwirman — continued. 



was conferred upon . us I submit, that we have 

 accumulated a vast mass of useful matter. I 

 have here copies of our records, but, unless any 

 special point arises, I suppose your Lordships 

 do not wish to go into the actual amount ; but I 

 will submit to the Comnuttee, as to the matter 

 of fact, the Report of the International 

 Committee on Over-fishing of which I was 

 convener. 



2199. Is this the one that went to Hamburg 

 the other day ? — That was the meeting held ait' 

 Amsterdam before Hamburg. The mealing of 

 the Committee dealt with the over-fishing pro- 

 blem, and the Report of this Committee con- 

 tains a tabular statement of the number of hauls 

 of the trawl made by the diffei-ent participating 

 countries ; and j'our Lordship will observe that; 

 so far as Avork at sea is concerned om- English 

 vessel has in each quarter of the year carried 

 out more trawling work in the North Sea than 

 any other vessel engaged in these investigations. 

 We have obtained the records of some 200- 

 hauls of the trawl ; every fish has been moasured 

 — we have these tabulated out — and they are- 

 almost ready for the press ; and the report about 

 these things is upon the point of being issued. 



2200. Have you taken any steps to ascertain, 

 the number of fish landed and their size and 

 where they came from ? — No. As I said, these- 

 matters were never referred to us.; no responsi- 

 bility was placed upon my Association in con- 

 nection with statistics of market observations. 



2201. Upon, whom was it placed ? — I under- 

 stand it was reserved for the Government 

 Department. After the Stockholm Conference 

 in 1899, a Departmental Committee was ap- 

 pointed for dealing with Fishery Statistics and 

 matters of that kind;: 



2202. The Ichthyological Committee ?— No, 

 the Statistical Committee ; and the terms of 

 reference to that; Committee were "To enquire 

 into the present system of collecting fishery 

 statistics in England and Wales, and to report 

 how the system could be improved and exten- 

 ded, and what additional cost (if any) would be 

 entailed thereby, having special regard to the 

 opinion expressed by the Select Committee of 

 the House of Commons on Sea Fisheries, 1893, 

 and the propo.sals of the Stockholm Conference, 

 1899." In other words, here was a Departmental 

 Committee appointed for the express purpose 

 of determining on the one hand to what extent 

 His Majesty's Goverment were prepared to 

 increase the statistical material, and on the other 

 to spend additional money on more statistical 

 evidence for the purpose of the International 

 enquiries. 



2203. Do you know how much money has 

 been expended ? — I am sorry to understand that 

 the recommendations of the Statistical Com- 

 mittee were not granted in full. 



2204. How much money have the Government 

 given to the Marine Biological Association ?— 

 The Marine Biological Association receives, I 

 think, some £5,500 a year for the sea work. 



2205. That is out of the sum set apart for the 

 purposes of international investigation is it not ? 

 — I cannot say. I am not in the. secrets of the 

 matter. The statistical part you see ^s already 



been 



