SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHEKIES BILL. 



133 



17 March 1904.J 



Mr. Gaestang. 



[Continued. 



Chairman — continued. 



understand the proposal. Really, the matter 

 was going on into a long discussion, and the 

 President, Dr. Herwig, ultimately got up and 

 practically induced the council to pass the reso- 

 lution on the ground that it was not a resolution 

 which committed the representatives of the 

 different countries to any line of action, but was 

 more or less of the nature of what we call 

 in England a " pious resolution," which was 

 desired by a particular country, and would do no 

 harm. As you ask my opinion, I can only state 

 what I heard and the nnpression I gathered 

 fi.-om the discussion which took place over the 

 Resolution. There was no objection to the 

 Resolution, except that one or two members 

 representing Holland and Belgium really could 

 not understand the drafting of it, and they 

 asked questions as to the meaning of the phrase 

 " make experiments " ; and in the replies which 

 were offered to their questions it was never 

 explained to them that what was meant was 

 legislative experiments. I think that a false 

 impression should not be created as to the real 

 intention of the Council in passing that Resolu- 

 tion, otherwise we might think they had broken 

 faith. The Resolution recommends foreign 

 countries, if I recollect rightly, to follow in the 

 lines of England, if England passes a Bill now 



g'ving power to make these experiments; and 

 lowing the feeling under which the proposal 

 was carried, I feel that injustice might he done 

 to them if it was thought that they in any way 

 pressed the matter or were eager for it. 



2345. Perhaps you will kindly look at the 

 resolution ? — Yes, it confirms what I say. The 

 resolution reads : " The International Council 

 resolves that it is desirable that in the event of 

 a law being passed in Great Britain giving powers 

 to make experiments for restricting the de- 

 struction of undersized flat fish, powers be also 

 taken by the various Governments concerned to 

 make experiments for restricting the destruction 

 of undersized flat fish." Your Lordship will 

 understand that in a mixed gathering where 

 several languages are being spoRen, the 

 foreigners do not always perfectly understand, 

 say, the English, and the English do not always 

 perfectly understand, say, the German. What 

 IS perfectly clear to us is not always perfectly 

 clear to them. And they raised the question ; 

 what was the meaning of this phrase " giving 



{)owers to make experiments." I know for a 

 act that they thought that what was intended 

 was trawling experiments, scientific investiga- 

 tions at sea, and they did not all understand that 

 it meant legislative experiments. 



2346. Notwithstandmg the fact that the word 

 " law " is used in the resolution ? — They asked 

 the very question : " Is a law necessary in Great 

 Britain in order to enable you to carry out some 

 scientific experiments " ; and I think that shows 

 the misunderstanding that was at any rate in 

 the mind of that particular individual. 



2347. But then the members of the Bureau 

 who proposed this had upon it representatives 

 of Germany, Sweden, and Holland, and it was 

 supported by Denmark and our own repre- 

 sentative, was it not ? — I presume the initial 

 overtures for that proposal probably came from 

 this country; I do not know. I think first of 



Chairman — continued. 



all the Bureau was very anxious to do everything 

 possible to assist England in any measure t,hat 

 England was taking for stopping the destruction 

 of those fish, certainly; but, although the 

 Bureau was prepared to assist this country by 

 that resolution, I think it would be a mistake 

 to imagine from the carrying of that proposal 

 that the representatives of all the countries 

 concerned were therefore unanimous in feeling 

 that the time had arrived for legislative experi- 

 ments, because they were confused at the time 

 and did not really understand the meaning of 

 the resolution. But I think, after a further 

 period of inquiry, when the matter has been 

 made clear and put upon a firm basis, they will 

 then be prepared in all probability to initiate 

 legislation in their own countries for the pro- 

 tection of their own interests. 



2348. Now with regard to the expression of 

 opinion on your part that further inquiry is 

 necessary, you are aware, are you not, that there 

 was a Select Committee of the House of 

 Commons to enquire into this matter in 1893. 

 I will not go further back than that ? — ^Yes. 



2349. Then there was the Icthyologieal Com- 

 mittee ? — I think that was a Special Committee 

 for discussing ways and means of carrying out 

 experiments. 



2350. Yes, but its object was to throw light 

 upon the subject generally, was it not ? — So far 

 as I recollect it was purely for discussing means 

 by which the State should assist scientific in- 

 vestigations. 



2351. Then there was a Departmental In- 

 quiry as to statistics ? — Yes. 



2352. Then there was the Bill of 1900 and tho 

 Inquiry which was held into that ? — Yes. 



2353. And there have been inquiries conducted 

 by the Fishmongers' Company ? — Yes. 



2354. And I should add, of course, the in- 

 quiries which had been made by the various 

 nations who are parties to the International Sea 

 Fisheries Inquiry which are still going on? — 

 Yes. 



2355. Then there were statistics collected by 

 the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries. Perhaps 

 you do not know that ? — I only know infor- 

 mally. 



2356. You know we spend 1,600Z. a year in 

 making inquiries ? — Yes. 



2357. Do you really think after all those en- 

 quiries have taken place, and we are constantly 

 being pressed to do something upon the recom- 

 mendations of those various committees, it is 

 advisable to do nothing until further inquiries 

 have been held ? — My impression is that most 

 of those Committees you have referred to were 

 Committees recommending further inquiries. 

 For example the Committee of 1893 and the 

 Committee of 1900 examined proposals for 

 restricting the destruction of these fish, and dis- 

 missed the proposals with the statements : " We 

 know nothing," " We do not know enough about 

 the situation," " We want more exact scientific 

 inquiries " ; and it was only in 1900 that the last 

 of those recommendations was made to that 

 effect. 



2358. That is four years ago ? — ^Yes, I under- 

 stand immediately after that His Majesty s 

 Government entered into some conferences with 



foreign 



