K4 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



17 Ma>-ch 1904] 



Mr. Garstang. 



[Continued. 



ChairTnan — continued. 



foreign countries which happened to be pro- 

 moted at the same time, and found that the 

 most Hkely method of bringing about Inter- 

 national co-operation in regard to regulating 

 fisheries would be by joining in those preliminary 

 International investigations; but speaking for 

 my own Association we only received our com- 

 mission eighteen months ago, and have not even 

 issued our first Annual Report. Therefore, I 

 cannot admit that the investigations are so 

 complete at the present stage that it is necessary 

 immediately to act. 



2359. At any rate, I think you have already 

 admitted that even if we are premature in 

 legislating now, the basis upon which the legis- 

 lation is framed is such that we can alter it if we 

 should find that further investigation makes it 

 desirable to do so ? — Yes, I think the elasticity 

 of the proposal is one of its greatest recom- 

 mendations so far as I am concerned. The 

 Danes have had a high size limit in operation for 

 many years, and their fishermen begin now to com- 

 plain that they are being hardly treated by this 

 strict legislation against them ; because side by 

 side with them are the English and German steam 

 trawlers fishing and catching these small fish and 

 destroying them in great nuiribers, and throwing 

 them overboard again. They themselves catch 

 the fish and do not destroy them ; they throw 

 them overboard alive. They think they are hardly 

 treated, and are now agitating in Denmark for 

 the repeal of those restrictive regulations. I 

 think it would undoubtedly strengthen the 

 hands of the Danish Government, now that this 

 Bill |has been promoted, if something could be 

 done to stop the depredations of the steam 



Chairman — continued, 

 trawlers on those particular grounds ; but I do 

 not think any case nas been made out for general 

 legislation. 



Duke of Abercorn. 



2360. But the Danes are not trawlers ; they 

 are seiners. 



Lord Tweedmouili. 



2361. Have you formed any sort of an opinion 

 as to the proportion of fish thrown back in the 

 ordinary course of business by trawlers, that 

 live ? — It is a very variable thing ; it partly 

 depends upon the state of the market, and — I 

 cannot give any average figures — but I do know 

 from experience of the Lowestoft smacks, for 

 example, and a few of the steam trawlers that 

 fish from there, that they do throw overboard at 

 times a considerable number of small fish, more 

 particularly the steamers. When they are fishing- 

 on those grounds, Terschelling and the north 

 coast of Holland, they catch at times a very 

 large number of these small fish, and it would 

 not pay them to bring the small fish to port — 

 they throw them overboard. On the eastern 

 grounds, of course, by the Horn Reef there is; 

 probably a far greater rejection of fish which 

 have been caught, owing to their being under- 

 sized. 



2362. Do they mostly live, do you think, after 

 they are thrown overboard ? — I believe the 

 majority die. I cannot at present say more. It 

 depends on the length of the haul andi the nature 

 of the bottom ; and I feel the majority probably 

 die. 



The Witness is directed to withdraw. 



Mr. WILLIAM THOMAS LOVELL is called in; and Examined as follows: 



Chairman. 



2363. I think you conduct a business in Lam- 

 beth, do you not? — Yes. 



2364. A fried fish business ? — Yes. 



2365. Can you speak generally for those who 

 are engaged in the 'trade, and as to the number 

 of customers that fried fish dealers have ?— Yes. 



2366. About how many are there engaged in 

 the;trade?— So far as I can gather, I should 

 think there are about 2,000 engaged in the Lon- 

 don trade, and I should think that we have, on 

 an average, from 500 to 3,000 customers a day, 

 so that would total up pretty well to half Lon- 

 don's population. I feel that I am fairly com- 

 petent to speak on the subject of what the size 

 of these fish should be, as the majority of them. 

 come into our hands. 



2367. To begin with plaice. What is a useful 

 size of plaice in your retail business ? — A useful 

 size would be nothing less than twelve inches. 



2368. But what do you do with a ten-inch 

 plaice ? — Some would use it and some would not. 

 That is according to the locality of the shop. 



2369. Do you try them in batter ? — Yes, batter 

 and fat. 



2370. Do you put more batter on a small fish 

 and less on a ]<irge one ? — That is entirely accord- 



Chairman — continued. 



ing to the cook ; some believe in batter and some 

 do not. 



Duke of Abercorn. 



No. 



2371. But not according to the consumer ?- 



Chairman. 



de- 



2372. Has the trade been improving or 

 creasing ? — Decreasing terribly. 



2373. Why is that ? Is it owing to the sizes 

 of the fish ? — It is on account of our not being 

 able to get these flat fish — plaice. Plaice is the 

 most popular fish in our line of business ; people 

 do not care for any other. 



2374. And do you find an increasing difllculty 

 in getting good-sized flat fish ? — Yes, there has 

 been a difficulty for years past. 



2376. What about price ? Are they going up 

 or down ? — They are going up considerably. 



2376. Even for small fish ? — Yes. 



2377. You would, I suppose, rather give_ a 

 better price for a large fish than a lower price 

 for a small fish '—Decidedly. In my case small 

 fish are no use to me at all, certainly. 



2^8. Have 



