136 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE 



17 March 1904.] 



Mr. LovELL. 



[Continued. 



Lord TiveedTnoutk — continued. 



2398. You take the most reasonable fish in 

 Bilhngsgate market ? — Yes. 



2399. At the market prices ? — Yes. 



2400. But turbot and brill are just as good as 

 plaice ? — Decidedly, if we can get them. 



2401. You seem to get them pretty often ? — 

 I am an exception in Billingsgate Market; I 

 often get 10, 20 and 30 stone of turbot and brill 

 where others will not get them. 



Lord Tweedmouth—contumed. 



2402. Then on days when you get turbot and 

 brill you have not inuch to be pitied for, or your 

 customers ? — You must understand that amongst 

 the class of people we deal with we do not sell 

 turbot and brill as turbot and brill, we have to 

 sell it as plaice. Plenty of people, if you said 

 you had turbots, would not have them. 



The Witness is directed to withdraw. 



Mr. CHARLES JEFFS is called in; and Examined as follows:— 



Chairman. 



2403. What is your business ? — Steam boat 

 owner. 



2404. At Grimsby ? — Yes. 



2405. Have you read the Bill ?— Yes. 



2406. Are you of opinion that the powers 

 which are given to the Board of Agriculture and 

 Fisheries are such that they may be used with 

 advantage to your trade ? — I am of that opinion. 



2407. In what way do you suggest in the first 

 instance that the orders of the Board should be 

 made ? — In the first instance I would rather 

 have taken the Bill formerly of 1900, a positive 

 Bill, rather than a permissive BiU. But I am very 

 anxious that something must be done for the 

 trade. 



2408. Do you think that the 8 inch limit as 

 proposed in the Bill of 1900 would have the 

 effect of preventing vessels from going to the 

 Eastern grounds ? — No, the 8 inch was not sufii- 

 ciently large. Twenty years ago we began with 

 the 13 in. plaice, and of course we gave way that 

 Ramsgate and Brixham might come in with us. 

 At which time and ever since we have been very 

 anxious that something might be done to pre- 

 vent ourselves from catching the small fish that 

 we are catching. 



2409. A self-denying ordinance ? — Yes. 



2410. And you would not desire to extend 

 that power so as to prevent Lowestoft, Yar- 

 mouth and Brixham from bringing in the fish 

 of smaller size that you yourself might be pro- 

 hibited from catching on the eastern grounds ? — 

 That is so. 



2411. And this Bill Avould give the Board of 

 Agriculture and Fisheries power to make regu- 

 lations for different sizes in difierent parts ? — 

 That is so ; only that there is this, we must look 

 at the fact. I have perfect confidence that 

 the Board of Agricult^ire and Fisheries would do 

 what is right and just to the whole of the trade. 

 It would not do for the smacks to be allowed to 

 fish on those grounds for undersized fish whilst 

 the steamers are prohibited from so doing. 



2412. But under the BiU it would be possible 

 to pass an Order affecting steam trawlers and 

 carriers, not steam trawlers only ; and if it were 

 found that the result ot that was what you have 

 just now said was possible, then it would be 

 within the competence of the Board to extend 

 the same provisions to vessels which went and 

 caught fish at places where you were practically 



Chairman — continued. 



prohibited from going ? — I have full confidence 

 that it would be done. 



2413. Has it not been in contemplation in 

 Grimsby to lay up the vessels during certain 

 months of the year in order to save the under- 

 sized fish ? — Yes, that has been a suggestion. 



2414. But it was never carried into practice ? 

 — No ; it has not be carried into practice. 



2415. Was there a conference in 1902 at 

 Grimsby ? — Yes. 



2416. And was this the resolution passed 

 there : " That in the opinion of this Conference 

 the systematic regulation of the catching power 

 is necessary during certain months of the year 

 to prevent the capture of enormous quantities of 

 fish that neither yield profit to the vessel, the 

 crew, nor the vendor." — -Yes, quite so. 



2417. Do you agree with that ? — Yes. 



2418. Your only difiiculty was how to carry it 

 into effect ? — Yes. 



2419. And you think that could be done 

 under this Bill ? — You could not lay up the 

 vessel. 



2420. No, " to prevent the capture ot 

 enormous quantities of fish that neither yield 

 profit to the vessel, the crew, nor the vendor " ? — 

 That is so. 



2421. Do you agree generally with the trade 

 in Grimsby and Hull and evidence given before 

 the Committee, that it is desirable to delay no 

 longer in introducing some legislation of this 

 kind '. — I am fully of that opinion and have 

 been for a long time. I have now worked over 

 twenty-four years, and it has come to pass now 

 that the North Sea practically is depleted of large 

 fish. I am a practical fifiherman. I served my 

 time fifty years ago as apprentice and have been 

 in the trade ever since, and from that time to 

 this I have seen the diminution of soles, turbot, 

 and brill going on, and if we are allowed to con- 

 tinue in this unwanton mischief, there can be 

 only one end, and that is the ruin of the trade. 

 ^Ve had a vessel come in yesterday with a fish 

 that had been caught forty-eight hours, and it 

 was alive and kicking. 



2422. A plaice ? — A plaice, I have brought 

 live plaice that lived for twenty-four hours many 

 scores of times myself, so that so far as the 

 throwing overboard of the fish is concerned 

 there are circumstances, when they get jammed 

 down, and that kind of thing, when m)u cannot 



save 



