14: 



MIXUTES OV EVIDENCE TAKEX KEFORE THE 



18 .Varch 1904.] 



Sir A. Vivian, k.c.b. 



[Continued. 



Cliairman — continued. 



preservation of these grounds if they were 

 directly under the Fisheries Committee of the 

 County Council. 



2521. In fact, it is really a question of the 

 difficulty of policing ?— Yes, that is so ; but the 

 coastguard would look after the observation of 

 the bye-laws ; and if it was reported direct to the 

 County Council Committee, and they could 

 prosecute, I think it would be found a much easier 

 way to stop this disturbance of the nurseries. 



2522. Is there any steam vessel policing these 

 waters under the control of your Fisheries Com- 

 mittee ? — No. I used myself in my own Httle 

 yacht to do steam trawling outside the three-mile 

 limit. 



2523. I mean, as regards poUcing ; have you 

 any vessels which are enforcing your bye-laws ? — 

 No. 



2524. How are the bye-laws enforced ? — The 

 bye-laws are enforced only by the coastguard. 



2525. Do you ever have a gunboat of the Royal 

 Navy ? — Not on our part. A gunboat, I believe, 

 has been appUed for to go of! the Seven Stones, 

 between the Cornish Coast and the Island of 

 ScilJy, to see to the foreign fishermen. 



2526. Then what is the process by which the 

 coastguard assist you. Do they report the 

 number of trawlers ? — Yes, they take their 

 numbers. 



2527. They do not, I presume, stop them, or 

 go alongside of them ? — Yes, they do sometimes. 

 But I think there have been hardly any prosecu- 

 tions at all, in consequence of the difficulties of the 

 authority to a great extent. As I said before, the 

 Fowey Conservators are very anxious to meet us, 

 but they have not fvmds for prosecution, and a 

 case would have to be handed over to the 

 Fisheries Committee in order to prosecute. 



2528. Thus, I suppose, generally you would 

 say that the facilities for policing the area are not 

 sufficient ? — I think if the coastguard were 

 properly instructed, and properly advised how to 

 act, they would be able to look after the estuaries 

 at any rate. 



2529. Do you know at all what instructions 

 are issued to the coastguard ? — No, I do not. 

 So far as I know, the instructions to the coastguard 

 are not very stringent. 



2530. You do not know at all whether in recent 

 years there have been more precise instructions 

 issued to them than formerly ? — No. On some 

 occasions I have spoken to the chief boatmen 

 in command of the coastguard in my part, and I 

 think there has been an uncertainty in the 

 instructions. 



2531. Do you ever attend the conferences at 

 the Board of Trade ? — Yes, I have attended the 

 meetings. 



2532. And you have heard the matter discussed 

 carefully at some of those conferences ? — I do not 

 think I have heard it. 



2533. It has been discussed several times ? — 

 In recent years do you mean ? 



2534. Yes. There has been rather a demand 

 that the Royal Na-s-y authorities should do more 

 to assist in pohcirg the water. You have not 



Ch a irman — continued, 

 heard of that ? — The Royal Navy would be a 

 great advantage to look after the three-mile limit, 

 but as regards the estuaries themselves, I believe 

 the coastguard could do it. 



Duke of Abercorn. 



2535. Have you any breeding grounds for fish 

 within the area over which you have jurisdiction ? — 

 These estuaries are the breeding grounds, to a 

 great extent, I think. 



2536. When you say the Helford estuary has 

 been fished out a great deal by trawlers, do you 

 refer to steam trawlers or to sailing trawlers ? — 

 Small saiUng trawlers. The Helford estuary was 

 a noted place for all sorts of fish, and when I 

 first went to live there,19 years ago, the fishing there 

 was certainly very much better than it is now. 

 I look upon it as having been destroyed to a great 

 extent by the excessive use of nets of different 

 sorts ; that is to say, not only trawling, but^also 

 seining and trammels. 



2537. And what do these trawlers do with their 

 undersized fish ; have you any idea where they 

 dispose of them or how they dispose of them ?— 

 No, I do not think they are disposed of ; but I 

 know when the trawl is brought up a great many 

 undersized fish are dead. So far as I have seen 

 (and I have seen trawling myself) they are dead 

 from the trawl being kept down a great time, 

 say an hour and a-half ; very often they he on the 

 deck dead, and go overboard as dead ; and you 

 see constantly a lot of gulls following the trawler 

 picking up the dead fish. 



2538. And the foreign trawlers are not allowed 

 to come within your Umits, I imagine ? — The 

 steam trawlers do not come within the three- 

 mile limit. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



2539. Have you any idea of a remedy ? Do 

 you think this Bill would be a remedy ? — Yes, I 

 think the second clause of this Bill will certainly 

 do good ; it will tend towards the preservation 

 of the small fish. 



2540. But you have the power already to make 

 regulations within .the territorial waters ? — Yes, 

 but I was saying that we have two authorities 

 on the south coast of Cornwall ; we have the 

 County Council Fisheries Committee, and we have 

 what are called the Fowey Conservators, who have 

 the power over all the estuaries, and their bye- 

 laws already prohibit trawUng, as I said before, 

 but the difficulty is to enforce it. 



2541. And you think a central authority to 

 enforce it for the whole country is what you would 

 like the best ? — Yes, if we had uniformity of 

 authority as it were, and uniformity of bye-lawa 

 with the three-mile Kmit, right along the coast, 

 I think it would be a great aid to the preservation 

 of fish. 



Earl of Yarborough. 



2542. Did I correctly understand you to say 

 that there were 100-ton sailing trawlers ? — I 

 really do not know, but judging by the look of 

 them. I know nothing myself of their sizes 

 except from seeing them about. 



254^ Tb.ere 



