SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SEA FISHERIES BILL. 



145 



18 March 1904] 



Sir T. Elliott, k.c.b. 



[Continued. 



Ghairman — continued. 

 •Order ? — ^Yes, I am afraid our Order would for 

 that reason prove ineffective. 



Duke of Abercorn. 

 "^2568. Would you recommend uniformity of 

 bye-laws throughout the coasts ? — I think there 

 is always very much to be said in favour of 

 imiformity. I am not, I think, sufficiently con- 

 versant with the particular circumstances of the 

 -different portions of the coast to say whether 

 it would be possible in this matter, but undoubtedly 

 it is usual that the central authority should have 

 the power to guide legislation of this kind on 

 identical lines. 



^2569. And when you refer to the different classes 

 ■of vessels, are you referring to the distinction 

 between steam trawlers and the in-shore fishing 

 sailing trawlers ? — ^Yes, that was one of the dis- 

 tinctions I had in my mind ; that a vessel pro- 

 pelled by steam power would be able to go 

 much further afield, obviously, than a sailing 

 vessel, and that is why in wishing to protect 

 the eastern grounds it would be one of the dis- 

 tinctions to be kept in mind. We should then 

 also have to consider, of course, the distinction 

 between the sizes of the vessels ; it is quite obvious 

 that a small fishing vessel could not possibly sail 

 from these shores to the eastern grounds. 



Lord Tweedmouth. 



2570. When you speak about the best and 

 general trade opinion, I suppose you have realised 

 that it is a Kttle difficult to get that in the case 

 •of fishing — there are such varying interests. What 



one set of fishermen thinks splendid, another set 

 of fishermen thinks equally objectionable ? — That 

 of course, is so. On the other hand, where you 

 have a department in close touch with an industry 

 as the Board of Fisheries wishes to come in close 

 touch with the fishing industry, we do get oppor- 

 liunities of weighing opinions as well as counting 

 heads. I do not think in regard to agriculture 

 we have had any difficulty in ascertaining what 

 agricultural opinion is, and I do not anticipate 

 any cJfficulty in regard to ascertaining the opinion 

 of the fishing industry. 



2571. I do not think you have such sharp lines 

 of difference between agriculturists as you have 

 between fishermen ? — With deference I should have 

 •said that there are many very different classes of 

 ■agriculture and agriculturists, and that it is 



Lord Tweedmouth — continued, 

 almost as difficult to predicate any general pro- 

 position of agriculture as it is of fishing. 



2572. But bearing in view the fact, as I think 

 at any rate, that there are great differences jn 

 different classes of fishermen, do not you think 

 the purposes of this Bill would be perfectly met 

 by only attempting to deal with one class of the 

 fishing trade ? — I think it would make further 

 action in the direction contemplated by this Bill 

 very difficult, and it may eaisily be that there 

 may be a growth of public opinion, even on the 

 part of the smaller interests, as regards legislation 

 of the kind. 



2573. Although you have had considerable 

 difference made between steam vessels and sailing 

 vessels with regard to previous legislation, both 

 in Scotland and in England ; I mean that a very 

 distinct line has been drawn between them ? — 

 I think it would be impossible to legislate in such 

 a way as to prevent steam vessels going, for 

 instance, to these eastern grounds unless there 

 was some means also of preventing the larger 

 sailing vessels from going. I tried to indicate 

 in my replies to his Lordship in the chair that 

 both distinctions would haye to be kept in view. 



2574. But how would this meet the case ? 

 When the sailing trawlers go to these distant 

 grounds the fish are brought to port in steam 

 carriers ; and what rather runs in my mind is, 

 that it would be possible to limit the operations 

 of the Bill to fish landed from steam vessels ; that 

 is to say, either from steam trawlers themselves 

 or steam carriers ? — I -am afraid it would give rise 

 to evasions and objections. Fish might then 

 be brought under certain circumstances by sailing 

 vessels. I do not think that a limitation of that 

 kind would enable the Board to do justice and 

 to comply with the wishes of the trade as a whole. 



Chairman. 



2575. As a matter of fact, are all the sailing 

 vessels served by steam carriers V- — I think not. 



2576. Many of them bring their own fish to port ? 

 — I believe that is so. 



2577. Therefore unless you applied the Order 

 to the larger sailing vessels as well as the carriers, 

 much small fish might be caught in certain parts 

 and brought in by the sailing vessels themselves ? — 

 I feel sure that any Orders on those lines would be 

 received with great opposition by the trade. 



The Witness is directed to withdraw. 



Mr. GEORGE DOUGHTY (a Member of the House of Commons) is further Examined; 



as follows : — 



Chairman. 



2578. You were good enough to give me some 

 ■evidence at the opening of this Inquiry, and 

 I think you have paid close attention to the pro- 

 ceedings which have been going on. Might I 

 ask whether you would now state to the Com- 

 mittee what, in your opinion, are the indispensable 

 ' hmitations which you think ought to be imposed 

 in the Bill, and how far you think it would be 

 :safe to leave other ' limitations to be imposed by 



(0.1 0.)' • 



Ghairmwa — continued. 



Order ? — When I gave evidence before the Com- 

 mittee before, I had not at that time had an 

 opportunity of consulting the representative 

 people of the trade at Grimsby. Since then I 

 have attended a very large meeting of those who 

 are greatly interested in this business, and they 

 almost unanimously support the suggestions 

 which I put before you when I last gave evidence. 

 I think we .all desire, as the ultimate end of legis- 

 T lation. 



