8 GKAZING FEES GUARANTY PRICE ON WHEAT. 



Indian reservations and on private lands, he was asked this question 

 by the chairman : 



Upon investigation, do you believe you are cliarging what it is worth at 

 the present time? 



Mr. PoTTEB. We are not charging the full present market value. 



Then he goes on to say: 



I consider that we have been handling this in the right way. If, however, 

 the values arising from the present abnormal conditions are to be the basis 

 of charge, of course the present fees would be doubled. 



Mr. ToMLiNSON. That is ho doubt a fair statement from his stand- 

 point ; but I wish to emphasize the fact that conditions throughout 

 the intermountain region, so far as grazing is concerned, are wholly 

 abnormal, as they are in most industries. We believe that it would 

 be eminently unfair to attempt to adjust on the reserves the grazing 

 fees on the basis of the present abnormal and inflated charges now 

 being secured on private lands or on State lands, or on the Indian 

 land. Last year, I believe, in Kansas they charged as high as $18 

 a head, did they not, Mr. Tincher? You can rent grazing down 

 there now for half that sum. The Flint Hills of Kansas are con- 

 sidered to have the best and strongest grass in the country. 



Mr. TiNCHEE. Here is the thing that appeals to me about it. The 

 committee had some trouble on the floor of the House of Representa- 

 tives in getting any legislation. Finally, as I remember it, the 

 amendment was passed providing for appraisement by the depart- 

 ment and rental upon the appraised value. Personally, I can not 

 see why the stockmen should object to that, and why you prefer a 

 congressional committee to investigate it to a fair appraisement by 

 a fair committee of the Agricultural Department, but here is the 

 proposition that has always bothered me about the forest reserves 

 until you spoke this morning, every stockman that has come down 

 here to testify has objected to it on the basis that the stockmen out 

 there had some fundamental interest in the forests and that they 

 should be treated differently, that they had some priority of rights ; 

 that is the way they testified. 



Mr. ToiiLiNsoN. I do not make that claim; we have not any 

 greater rights than anybody else, although nianv stockmen located 

 near Government land on exactly that theory. 



Mr. Tincher. We are confronted with this proposition: The 

 representatives of the department come here and ask for big appro- 

 priations to build fences, roads, and so forth, and I am frank to say 

 that your testimony has been a revelation to me as to the expense 

 that the cattlemen have gone to in reference to fences. That is 

 something that we did not consider very much. However! I can not 

 see now the objection to having an appraisement and the leasing 

 based on that appraisement. If the appraisement is unfair then it 

 would be time for the cattlemen to make their objections. I do not 

 think that you would get much results by taking members of this 

 comniittee out there and going over the forest reserves to decide 

 what the cattlemen should pay for the pastures 



Mr. ToMMNsoN. At least, Congressman, they 'would obtain a better 

 understanding of conditions than they could by the witnesses com- 

 ing down here and trying to tell them. In answer to the question 

 why we object to a reappraisal, I do not believe the stockmen cen- 



