10 GRAZING FEES GUARANTY PRICE ON WHEAT. 



Valley, to ship our cattle and sheep about 60 miles on a narrow- 

 gauge railroad, unload them this side of Creed, Colo., and thto 

 drive them by a most tortuous trail into the forest. We lost so 

 many sheep by storms, predatory animals, and poisonous plants that 

 it was a distinct and decided financial loss to our company. We lost 

 many cattle by drifting over the mountains onto the other side of the 

 range, and we have not yet been able to find those cattle that we 

 lost. Our loss on cattle will be close to 10 per cent up to date, and 

 our sheep loss was almost that heavy. I think you will find many 

 similar instances from other users of the forests in other sections 

 of the country. 



I wish, however, to make perfectly plain that those men who have 

 ranches near the forests and can turn their cattle out and they can 

 drift onto the forest reserves are in an ideal position to use them at 

 a minimum of expense, but, of course, everyone who uses the forest 

 is not situated right near them. A majority, in the very nature of 

 things, must live a distance away from the forest. 



Mr. Ktjbet. Just a word. I think the situation is about this : This 

 committee prepared a proposition to put into the agricultural bill 

 on grazing, but it went out on a point of order, and then it became 

 necessary to so word our regulation as to make it in order. I pre- 

 pared that amendment myself and it was adopted in the House. 

 That amendment leaves it to the office of the Secretary of Agricul- 

 ture to do the appraising. It seems to me that if the Secretary of 

 Agriculture should decide to pursue that policy and appraise the 

 grazing lands in the forest reserves, that in making that appraisal 

 he would take into consideration all the difficulties that you have 

 enumerated here this morning. It would only be fair to the stock- 

 men for those things to be taken into consideration, and then, when 

 they have established the value of the grazing, taking into considera- 

 tion all of those factors wliich you have enumerated this morning, 

 it seems to me that would be a fair basis upon which to make the 

 charge. It would not make any difference to the stockmen whether 

 that was increased or not, because they would not lose an3rthing; 

 they would simply pass it on, as you said a moment ago, to the con- 

 sumer, and the result would be that in the end you stockmen would 

 not be hurt, if you pursued that policy. 



Mr. ToMLiNsoN. What I said referred to whether they could pass 

 it on. 



Mr. RuBEY. Yes, sir. 



Mr. ToMLiNSON. Of course, that brings up a big economic ques- 

 tion. ^ 



Mr. Rttbet. I understand that 



Mr. ToMLiNsoN. As to whether they could pass it on. 



Mr. Etjbet. I doubt whether they could pass it on 



Mr. ToMLiNsoN. So do I. 



Mr. Rtjbey. I think it is fair to get a reasonable return for the 

 grazmg m the national forests, and I do not believe we are getting 

 iTtt'e Zve.^ ^^" ^* *^' P'"'"^*^ *^"^^' I *h^^k we should have I 



brMv The oTi J ''^=^1'''^''"* ^ Pc?^^* *^^* I ^^nt to comment 

 ^rfK: The officials of theTorest Service have frequentlv told 

 that they had no disposition to make these advance. ITa^Z f^l 



on 



us 



these advances and that the 100 



