FIFTH NATIONAI, CONSERVATION CONGRESS 363 



strikes me as being practical. It seems to me that the problem of utilization and 

 of waste is looked at, to a large extent, from the particular position in which we 

 may be located. Somebody in the East, where the timber has all been cut off, 

 and where there are only small tracts, looks at it from the point of view of a 

 tract of land where there is very little' left, and somebody from the great South- 

 west, where there are tremendous tracts of lumber, looks at it from the stand- 

 point of one interested in a large lumbering operation. The matter of waste in 

 connection with a tract of timber has two aspects, to my mind. What seems to 

 be waste in the lumber industry is not always economical — that is, absolutely 

 positive economy. In other words, for a lumberman to undertake to place some 

 products of the log. on the market is, perhaps, economizing wood, but it is wasting 

 labor, it is wasting the energy of man when he cannot put on the market, as 

 Mr. Clark has emphasized at a price that will enable him to refund himself for 

 his expenditure. The real estate men have an idea that is a very good one, and 

 that is, buy real "estate and sell location, and this matter of the utilization of 

 waste, as has been brought out this afternoon is partly a matter of location. The 

 utilization of waste in the lumber forests of Pennsylvania was solved some time 

 ago and the producers of lumber in Pennsylvania found utilization for almost 

 everything that the log produced. The men who are manufacturing long-leaf pine 

 in the South would like to have that problem of distillation of turpentine solved, 

 so that they could get it out of their slabs. I was interested in a lumbering opera- 

 tion which emphasizes the fact that it is a matter of viewpoint, to some extent, 

 where we looked at that very problem. We were cutting from 20 to 35,000 feet 

 of lumber a day, and we saw the slabs piling up around our mill, endangering 

 the mill and the whole village in which the people dwelt and determined that they 

 must either be burned up or they might burn down the town. We saw that there 

 was beautiful wood in it, we saw that there was beautiful sap in it, we saw there 

 were possibilities of turpentine, but when we began to investigate what it would 

 cost to institute a plant and put on the market the products of those slabs, in the 

 way of turpentine, we found we would be, at the end of our experience, in that 

 region as lumbermen, thousands and thousands of dollars out of pocket because 

 we would not get out of it what we attempted to put into it. 



Mr. S. B. Elliott, of Pennsylvania: I rise for two purposes, one, to con- 

 gratulate the audience upon the admirable address of Mr. Clark, which was the 

 most clear, direct, accurate statement of the case and conditions that I have ever 

 heard. I have been a practical lumberman all my life, and I know something of 

 what he has been talking about. He presented a condition of things which is 

 likely to exist in a greater or less degree until the price of lumber in the market 

 should be equal to what it costs to grow it from the tree, and that is an event 

 which is certain to occur in this country. The other point is that there are many 

 and many people who are honest and sincere advocates of forestry, and the 

 burden of their song is the condemnation of the lumbermen because the waste is 

 still going on. I say to you, the lumbermen will not waste anything if he can get 

 a market for it, nothing at all. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot 

 make him drink. You may cut out the stuff, as you think it should be cut; you 

 can try to sell it in the market, and you will find th§y will not take it. A few 

 years ago I was in Europe, and I saw the black forest where they were cutting 

 everything clean, not leaving the bushes. The brush was tied up like bundles of 

 wheat, and then they let the peasants go on the ground and dig out the stumps, 

 and I understand they even sold them. Now, the American lumberman will do 

 that thing: he will sell you the brush, the bark and the stump, and if you want 

 it he will sell you the hole the stump came out of. (Laughter.) , 



Other gentlemen who participated in the discussion were: 



Dr. Hugh P. Baker, of New York. 



Prof. Nelson C. Brown, of New York. 



Mr. W. L. Sykes, of New York. 



