FIFTH NATIONAL CONSERVATION CONGRESS 321 



pays all the expenses of extinguishing fires and charges this back to the members 

 according to their acreage, pro rata, which is valuable from this standpoint. 

 When we formed this association there were a lot of men who had small areas 

 of timber, and they were very loathe to come into the association, for fear it 

 would cost them too much money. A man who owns a few square miles of 

 timber, if he has to pay the expense of putting out a fire which occurs in it, the 

 expense may be so large that it is a very heavy burden on him, so we decided to 

 pro rate the cost of fire fighting according to the acreage, and we find this a very 

 valuable help to us in getting people to come into the association. We also find 

 this principle of cooperation is the most effective way of fighting fires that we 

 have ever heard of or have ever tried. 



Mr. F. S. Underbill, of Pennsylvania: Mr. Chairman, our work here today 

 is educational, and it is educational to those who are present. There are three 

 classes of people, I comprehend, who are interested in this discussion, the prac- 

 tical forester who is interested in fire protection under the Federal Government, 

 the lumberman who is interested in this question of cooperative fire protection, and 

 those who are interested because of their interest in general public welfare. 



It has occurred to me that this suggestion might properly come up at this 

 time: What can those who are not here, those who are not lumbermen and not 

 practical foresters, do in this matter. I have listened with a good bit of interest 

 to what Mr. Sykes said, as well as to what the others have said, and it occurs to 

 me that one of the great principles that is before the civic associations is to 

 emphasize the fact that a large percentage of the forest fires, as well as other 

 fires, are due to carelessness and indifference. 



Not long ago I attended the meeting of the National Fire Association of 

 Philadelphia, and they had up for discussion fires in cities and towns, and that 

 point was brought out. Mr. Sykes brought up the fact that a great many fires 

 are brought up by men who go into the forests and throw away a match or leave 

 a cigar or cigarette burning. It is true, also, that there is, to a certain extent, 

 carelessness on the part of employes on the railroads. I was concerned in the 

 investigation of a case that led to a disastrous fire, and the ultimate conclusion 

 that we reached was that that fire was caused by sparks from a locomotive and 

 the locomotive that passed at that particular time had the spark arrester, but 

 somebody, an employe of the railroad who was indifferent or careless to the 

 result of what he did, in order to create a better draft for the fire in his furnace, 

 went to the smokestack and, with an iron implement, burst a hole in the spark 

 arrester in order to get a better draft. It is true, a part of this proceeding will 

 appear in the Washington newspapers, but we do have access to local newspapers, 

 and we can secure sufficient data from the American Forestry Association and 

 the National Conservation Association in regard to forest fires and the dangers 

 that result from indifference and maliciousness and place it before our editors as 

 well as our clubs and associations and ask them, in the interest of the welfare of 

 the public and the welfare of the land, to emphasize the existence of carelessness. 

 I believe that our civic associations can do a great deal to prevent forest fires. 



The Chairman: May I recognize myself a moment in order to suggest an 

 answer to your question as it appears to me? I do not see how we are going to 

 accomplish anything, or, at least, not very much in this direction, except through 

 organization and direct effort. There has to be some machinery, some person to 

 keep at this thing to really accomplish very much, and that leads you straight 

 back to the legislature. There must be some kind of an organization, a State 

 agency which will direct these matters within the State, and there must be back 

 of that, not moral authority to do things, but there must be plenty of money, and 

 if you have got plenty of money back of an adequate and efficient State organiza- 

 tion which can call upon the different educational agencies from the universities 

 and all the different sources of clubs and civic associations and women's clubs. 



