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extracted. We do not find the packages specially opened and the fruit extracted in 

 that way but we do miss packages in the count. As some of the gentlemen have sug- 

 gested, if the steamship companies will give the count, and if the agents of the rail- 

 way companies at the stations will take these goods and give us bills of lading on 

 that count it will be all right. Tou cannot get the! railway agent or any of his men 

 to give the count ; they won't do it. They have done it on rare occasions, under 

 pressure ; but as a rule they won't give you the count. 



Mr. J. T. McBride, of Montreal. — I have made money out of apples, and I can 

 make more. I think, perhaps, we are a little too hard on the steamship companies 

 and the express companies. I have shipped fruit to Liverpool and other ports, and 

 have never asked a favour of a steamship or an express' company that I did not get. 

 Last year T had $48,000 worth of the finest California fruit. My claims for the year 

 were $76. This year I shipped to Liverpool, and my claims were only $10. They paid 

 it at once. If they knew what we wanted, I think they wovTld give it to us. For 

 several years the California fruit coming down to Montreal was badly handled. For 

 years it was badly handled in the west, and they ran a special car. They cannot always 

 get good men. 1 cannot get good men in my warehouse ; I make rules, and every day 

 they are broken. I cannot get good men to pack my apples, although I pay them 

 all they ask. Over 2,000 barrejs of apples got to Liverpool rubbish. I have orders 

 from the biggest house in Britain for apples, and they say : " Kyou cannot ship by 

 Montreal, don't ship me any apples." They won't have them from New York. I 

 have had thousands of barrels of apples arrive in New York, and I never had them 

 handled as well as in Montreal. I think the steamship companies can keep the bar- 

 rels where there is no heat. They cannot afford to give us the cattle decks, because 

 the cattle pay far better. I have worked in the ships all night and all day, and 

 where they knew what we want they have always given it. 



Mr. Staee. — I have been very much interested in the discussion so far. I will 

 not detain you with any remarks at any length. While I agree in the main with the 

 first two speakers, there are some of their views to which I take decided objection. 

 In view of the fact that so many steamship representatives have been heard to-night, 

 possibly I might not have the same opportunity of meeting them again. I would like 

 to ask one or two questions which possibly they can answer. One is with reference 

 to the bills of lading. I have observed that the bills of lading contain a clause that 

 a charge of Is. 6d. per tou was made on all fruits of a certain class — that bears upon 

 apples — for discharging at the docks in London. I would like to ask if this is custom- 

 ary with you in Montreal. Another -^question I would like to ask is with reference 

 to a clause which I find in the bills of lading used by the steamship companies, that 

 the freight is payable ship lost or not lost. This is the usual clause. If this is the 

 case is it fair play to the shippers to insert such a clause in any bills of lading ? 

 Eeference has been made to the difficulties and delays in the handling at ports, and 

 so on. I may say that that don't apply to many cases in Nova Scotia. We have more 

 fault to find with the steamship companies or their agents on the other side than 

 we have with our agents in Nova Scotia, in the handling of fruit. We can ship 

 our fruit in Nova Scotia and in four or five hours they have it in the boat. 

 In cold weather we usually accompany the fruit and look after it. We have 

 no fault to find with the handling of the fruit going into the boats, but we 

 have a decided objection to the way the fruit is handled when it is being taken out 

 of the boats. Take, for instance, a shipment of 3,800 barrels a short time ago, at 

 London ; there were 130 barrels broken open. This, it appears, was done in the 

 discharge of the cargo, in the hurry. They handle them from six to ten at a time, 

 and hoist them by steam winches. Coming up through the hatchways, if they catch 

 anything thej- break off the hoops, the heads come off, and the apples are scattered 

 to the four winds of heaven. If a claim is put in the steamship company claims 

 that it is not responsible. I instructed my agents in London to enter suit against a 

 steamship company at a cost of $300. A short time ago an opinion of the best 

 counsel in London was taken upon the matter. I have the written opinion of 

 Aberley Muir, the celebrated counsel in London, as to the case in hand, that in view 



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