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same by them all. The fruit is delivered by the railway to the steamship companies 

 in the usual way, and each company handles apples alike. Then he made another 

 statement of the very gi-eat number of claims. Now, I may say, as far as I am con- 

 cerned that the claims we get are very small indeed. I do not think this year a 

 claim has come for ten barrels, as regards quantities. Then there is another state- 

 meat I would like to make. The receivers of apples on the other side have 

 fiequently made the statement to the Dominion Line that no steamers arriving 

 in Liverpool deliver their fruit in better condition. The fact is, that this winter 

 from Portland, thousands of barrels per week were going forward by this line in 

 preference to any other. Mr. Watt has made a statement that the steamship com- 

 panies were only too anxious to do everthing in their power to facilitate business, 

 and make it as pleasant as possible for shippers. I can only say the same thing. 



Mr. McD. Allan. — ^I am called upon to reply to these remarks. The first remark 

 was that he wished to know the reason I did not visit the Dominion Line. I was not 

 invited. I was invited to visit the other line's. He says I made a statement that 

 apples were placed where the cattle were. I made no such statement. I do not 

 profess to know exactly the names of the various compartments of the vessel ; but I 

 never presumed that apples were put in precisely the same compartment with cattle. 



Mr. ToRRANOE. — I did not mean that. 



Mr. Allan. — Thej^ are placed in the same vessel, and what we are afraid of, and 

 according to our reports, is that the apples are damaged in flavour. We get these 

 reports from the other side. We get them, we think, from reliable sources, and a 

 simple denial is not sufficient. We get these reports and we infer that there must 

 be some way ot the stench from these cattle reaching the fruit. I do not know 

 whether the compartment is close enough or not. There must be some way of clos- 

 ing it, so that this stench will not roach the fruit. If there is any crevice and the 

 smell reaches the fruit, I can assure you that it will damage it. I merely throw 

 that out. There is no insult offered, and I think it was unmanlj^ to get up and make 

 the statements we have just heard, to trj' and creep out of this matter in the way 

 endeavoured. We put the thing fair and square, in the hope that these gentlemen who 

 are here representing the steamship companies will see that no crevices are left open 

 by which the stench from the cattle could possibly reach and damage the fruit. It 

 is of no consequence whether I know where the boilers are or not. We have the 

 reports that the fruit is heated on arrival, and that the heat has come fi'om the boil- 

 ers: Whether the fruit has been packed exactly up to the boilers or not I do not 

 know ; but I presume it must have been sufficiently near to do a certain amount of 

 damage. The fruit has certainly been damaged by heating. It is possible it maybe 

 in some other part of the vessel, where it is surrounded by other things, but at all 

 events we know it has been heated. If some system of introducing the atmospheric 

 blast^ that has been spoken of, were adopted in that part of the vessel, it might remedy 

 that. If it is cheap, it is a good thing in anj' case. It would satisfy the fruit grow- 

 ers and shippers. It would be a boon to us. It would help to carry the fruit in 

 proper shape. There was another point that occurred to me, while one of the gentle- 

 man was speaking, that there must be considerable damage to the apples from piling 

 them tier on tier in the hold. We have heard that complaint frequently. I intended 

 to suggest that the steamship owners should look into that, and see if there is not 

 some simple remedy; by relieving the pressure by means of cross bars — something 

 that would bear up the pressure from the barrels beneath. We have had reports 

 that the apples in the lower tiers could only be sold as " wets." 



Mr. Torrance.— As far as regards the placing of cattle, they are placed on a 

 ■different deck fi-om the apples. It is water tight and must be tight and it is utterly 

 impossible for the effluvia to get down. ' 



Mr. Allan.— There is no doubt but that the damage is there. 



The President.— The object is to present these facts to the shippers, in order 

 that we may have an impartial discussion, so as to endeavour to arrive at some means 

 of meeting the difficulty. I trust that no statement will be made to reflect on any 

 ■one. ■' 



