Sept. 27. 1883-1 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



171 



POGT>LKS.— 1st. Mrs. J, TufTocll (Juinbui; 8(1. H. Waterbousfi 

 (Cairo); :i.l..I. B. ExJiam iKnliouchci. 



SHEEPDOGS - in vu ions: Eolral 1st. M. Q Asliwin (Carlylci anil 

 ST Mi ri-i-r -.1— -;-;•■■.— (»i-i-:-- /'■■■;■ 1st. II. C. Ashwui , I >-.:-,al i ■: 2d., 

 S Hoiluinfiton (Rutland): :;q. Mrs. T. s.. r,ii-,-v Sic. i|. II 



1M.JU _\ - 1 . •• i 1 1 . 1--DS.-.VI-. ai W. fJ n I ■ I ":. i„ --:.-. i. Major (i. 



F. f. inutile (Gurli ta 



any Ol'HES vaimkty. l«t, Hnjor te-lrelaml (fox-terrier. Oil- 

 M. W. .). iJnlton (Lull. leg. Tig-r. .:;■;. In. i\ A l.-mg- 

 fid. (•;. smii: 111.. .). r Abbott I'masiiir. Clio). 



DOGS AND CRITICS. 



bare 1 n originally— and I arn content to acoopt, Col Taylor 1 



statement thai he wrote "intbo interest of improvement i 

 al! brei Us of dogk— has of late woefully missed its mark, ani 



from ■•■-iii a cril i - degenerated ijoCoanabus 



of men, 



Wjrii conclusion can the .general public come to when the; 

 fiid judges in. i only disagreeing us to the merits i 

 engaged in quest ionium each other's ubilitv to act in the line 

 Verilv l.m m.- . -.e. -'.us: m • an lie reached, viz.. that bene! 

 shows hi. a fin. •■•: -ii.-u ■ made are the resui 



either of ignorance or .mtialit;. : lli.-.T tie: .;•!.:■_■ ■■ 



competent, if not dishonest, Bet, and that exhibitors hod bei 

 ter keep tin lirdogs al home. 



After carefully reading the letterswhich from time to tini 

 have appeared, this 



of 



ha 



cone- Is 11 del 



abroad) Mosl certainly not if the Hi-; writer's object., ot u 

 proving tbe various breeds of dogs in this country , is to 1 

 promoted, a result only attainable through the medium 



well-managed, well-judged bench shows. I would thereto 

 suggest that 



"Dogs be let to l.m U nn.l bite, 

 For 'tis their nature • >." 

 but that, our judges devote themselves 

 able task than Uatlv contradict Jul- cue' 

 in your paper. Feed. "W. Ri 

 Simcoe, Ontario. 



SETTERS AND BENCH SHOWS. 



B&ttor forest and Stream: 



h, your issueof Septembei 6, Mv. H, .1 Ri tl 



ct.-r._n-. «■! the gentleman who judged at "Washingt, 

 last spring, it w 



■k 1 



inf., i,„ 



VVhi 



the En 



bo the best of hi 

 bsappoiuted exhi 



is for it. 

 r sports- 

 II claim 



il thai tl 

 type in mv i ye, we agree 

 a" flat eoat. and why heel 

 attempt to prove ir b. Ste 



perfectly that a s 



aims further on 

 tthat a L 



ml fr. 

 ;ity t 



»as long as 1 at e I not nut up with it. in uivrcd setters. 



The tape measuiv -d.- ..sole all doubts' of size in his miml 



butlbelieve ho •nust have nsed an elastic one that 

 could stretch whera be wished it, rorlsaw the two dogs 



i each other-, and to make out his favorite the 

 larger and taller, he would have to lift him on a table. At 



on.- ho admits the very point you are trying (■■ 

 deny on the ground of condition alone. He must have bis 

 own ideas about judging a dog by arithmetics, adding two 

 points to a head, subtracting live from a tail, a hair, a leg 

 or I....... 



ti,..: in upright, btmest man could be induced tofavor owm .- 

 of doga 



When he linally cornea to the conclusion that- only men who 

 are familiar with a parliciilai breed of dogs should judge 

 such, 1 indorse bis opinion in full, believing thai very few of 

 our able judges would claim to master any and every breed. 



Max Wehzhi., 



1 1,, Bui; f.n, n. ,)., sept. aa. 



_;,;.' ,,- /■'.., y.-7 avil Shram: 



How many people womd he mule if ihey were forbidden to 

 speak well ol themselves, and evil of others? Iain induced to 

 fclus rcilectioii by reading a letter in Pqubst and .stream of 

 Sept .. from 1). • ■:." ..i" Mr. H. ..-. Kic.c I sax -ii'.ii. lie- ri.-n.'" 

 because letters of thai km.! oome more from « |ien than from 

 thotujil ii i--.--.--.-- ;. i i,-> humanitrr to one's fellow-man, 



WOrshiplul attempt to B 

 su.h :i soldici ly and we 

 u, iif,. i in oi brass ami In 

 twinship, "1" and "my" 

 when "we Bsh srw roil' |, 

 utteranci s, such an aosi 

 i.i- because bold) offorl 

 biers, -old to exalt one - 

 of inten si orenteitami 

 in '.he pi -. .-. ■ 



Bice. J like ft 



his name to hi< 



leaves t be pare 



Let ii- spend 



-1 write to bro 



plogy ili.it. tii 



I pr 



oi-tln ...ii.lcis.. ,,ie.- fo.i.i.l 

 i was the. word intended ; 

 cr the signature. Ii. .1. 

 , lioweven He attaches 

 breatbesa blessing as it 



nnlat in- this production: 



" (Classical phrase 

 mv friend writes 

 entire eommuni- 



,\,. 



cat. on Is literally honeycombed with such charges as "misrep- 

 resent at i.-n." ni.ili- •-. h'e.-iwh.-it else but ''lies'' are"untruestate- 

 ii ... .ii > : "i dishonorable fault-finding, gross exaggeration, 

 illness, duplicity, immauliucss, against two of your 



And -ir. when i he pen of Mr. I :;■_••• can peck like a daw 

 al nothing more tangible, be even sniffs around like a lummer- 

 gcjer circling in Ins mountain fastni -- lor n-wer carrion— and 

 smells out a Benten u- two, carelessly wi-iuen, ora word in- 

 aptly used, and win. Mephistophelean chuckle, _rms owm. 



as "good graiinnnr'.'' Y.-. he canghtme. there, 1 did sav - -i 



ncrfi-.-i-v. hen it should have been "most nearly -perfect." But if 

 Mr. Rice will pardon the prcsumptioa and tie daring, may 

 I invite the attention of out critical and newly-found Addison, 

 f.Ml f.oi'.-u ia.i- thai his -at incal charge of "good gram- 

 mar ;- .. superfluous and ucorrect jotningof lYords? (j-ram- 

 mar is the highest type o 1 thooorroci aseol words, and .-,:/.■, 

 it is "good I' 1 l.i.-re isnpneodul the latter word to qualify 

 il. Pardon mi- for pr. -inning, Mr. Rice, to seduce you 

 into a contemplation of ihis Kuggestion. Or for potting youin 

 your own trap. 



Although I am not a jmeller-uut of such trifles as . I lulty 

 -..-..-: ion oi sentences, or in ymentoi words 



in the letters ..i youj conl , ibi ' 



upon a scent. I have keen olfactory organs; and must be 



i ii theS are called into regulation. A little furtheron, 



in his fetter, Mr. Uioo writes an follows; "1 do not know ueMr. 



enueto Mr. Rii 



lie- foll.,winu 



GoodseU wfllal 



they app or l. 

 betl -i : ■■ Wi,.-; 

 Thai 



hrce 1, 



othei 



' any such a. test " Is this an elegant and 

 a Ciceronian sentence.' With all due defer 

 Did the English Addison, whostfll lives in 

 nd to the immortal Cicero, it seems to me 

 ild sound better: "I do not know that Mr. 

 any juch test" Still further onhc writes: 

 L to more thoroughly understanding than 

 ,- followino read 



hlv undcrstiind.'" 



I of faulty 



meroy'ssake, it 



anlv retaliated ill 



DStat 



.-I to 1 



Btruction of sentences, but I forbear 



nol tor the editor's, and Mr. Rice's. Ih 

 kind! As for the L's used in this remarki 

 a friend counted them, but wearied of 1 

 scattered prodigally, and crew '-thick as 

 .-U-.-w the hi nolo in \'m llainlirosn." Alii. 



in utter despah-. ' Ah! Mr. Editor, if 

 could replace this"!, 1 ' now chary one w. 



Now. -ir. if the writer of ihis had not already engaged too 

 mu-.-h.-f vi.ur at tention. and trespassed frcpiiuitly on your 

 ki.idn.-r--.' your courtosy, your generosity and your patience, 

 it would pica.-,- him to discuss the merits and dements of our 

 favorites with any of your correspondents who think enough 

 of their ne.-hl.or.s to al..-ia in from dubbing them tricksters, 

 falsi!! 



w i 1 1 , i naliee prepense to so classify them, as does Mr. Hice. and 

 who triumphanm .-arn-.-s that flag from one end of his letter 

 In the other, with II. J. Rice embroidered all over it-aye from 

 its alpha to it- Omega, -I can only bow meekly my head, and 

 pass in absolute contrition to tlie other side. Just another 

 quotation or two more, from this well-ordered epistle: "I 

 think X have nowhere insinuated that others know nothing, 

 yself." In alluding to 



ril-n 



nded i 



■en a 



;: "Many of these letters ought 

 iving been written, they should 



appear in print: (Rather a 

 Ionian in construction? The 



seems to me, latter part 

 ud less tautology indulged in.) 

 Uee the referee in the case 

 ,ned by the same, master hand 

 :st declaration: "I think I have 

 sum of knowledge li -s in mv- 

 jcanseof mere whim.- « Rather 

 e "sum of knowledge" as to 

 r I'oue: 







lettc 



ml do. 



Agai 



,vhip falls: 



see it burn; doubtli 



for-great ^ood to our doys and bench sho 



inn h in a siiuare and ternoerate manner,": 



mg that two or three 



this! Humorous Ricoj A Ei 



contemporary writer with .1 



estimation, as having a pecu) 



, had ' 



ICS il [ 



after 



rlnn 



uiii 



places an interroga 



you don't, yon kno 



I." Pleasant fellow 

 iv this he charges a 

 ire one dog in public 



a fellow will, malic.-., 'is 



n a letter of mine as follow-: -I 



and afler the name Thunder he 



(0. as much as to say, "th£ devil 



falsifying, and do mean an attack 



laiiiv fellow, this Mr. Rice, knows how it is himself, 



But I don't so understand things. I speak out dis- 



f I wanted to -attack" the dog, rest assured I 



,1 would insinuate uoUiing. it is not. my wish or in- 



matchless Master S 

 etc, and a little fu 



that 1 asked tl: 



Bice's pen. pa 



tence: "In fi 

 become tit i" 



,f Altcar," etc , 

 that I "bolster 

 uuds because I 

 ces. lie forgets 

 e question, "Is 

 Is: after I had 

 ts and had wit- 

 ad. Oh: where 

 ouest criticism" 

 distorted the 



;. 10 make oh.-. " ju.hic".' Is this quoted 

 1 (not "good grammar"); You will oh- 

 ig Mr. Rice a little of the medicine he 

 In that part of his letter 



jud-e. he disagrees with 



.vied 



diser..T.io 



tact 

 rify." "A' 

 attack on Mr. M.'s integrilg 

 whose heart overflows vvitl 

 and brotherly kindness, wh, 



h "bolstering up ' Mr. Mason 

 ud says a judge ought to ha 

 equilibrium, and. above all, i 



ion 



aud chi 



; he doi 



, liki 



words of thine which ha 



-(.111 wail some god the gil'tie gi 

 T...s..c:iii-i,-lv,-.sasitliei-ssee at 



And those others of pathos and power: 

 '•.Mm's inhumanity to man. makes countlei - 



Now, to glance briefly at, and respond v 

 eisni upon my views. He objects to mv -t. 

 tain dog lacked "stamina," and as 

 tell whetheradog hag '«sfa»ina''or not, by 

 bntheoench. 1 must disagree with Mr. K 



B soul who so fears to 

 trui l-"— those quenchless 

 i a bell around tlie world: 



had 1 



. -d fo 



re from it that, 

 hitu were within 

 ■ his owner. Mr. 

 nv statement that 

 uncalled for. im- 

 o wishes to pass 



1-: !■-,■'- in, -ri--- . aiioii liiai .-:, thei eforc. : 

 no "attack" was inten, l.-d on this dog, 

 pertinent, \ulgar, and unworthy of or 

 muster ami ug his fellows as s gentle, reaneu ami coiisiaenoe 

 man. Il ^^•:l- uuw, niiy of a brave and inmly man. 

 ise i Ond fault with UVer 



I attempts to , ti.oiici m\ assertion 



rs,but an contoraii ■ s 

 b|., : i,is,i. i.\ ■ r- •e.iiii!!^ .,, i.i-.-iii-'.ry some liver-e.olored animals 

 \viihs.,ir\ In.ikiu-, tilths i.i hair" on top of their hoods, which 



flourished in the North of England rnanv years a- 0. Se also 

 quotes a conimercial "trade mark." baptwed I he ••Armstrong," 

 as proof that "liver and white" for setters was then a fashion- 

 able color, and cites an instance when Id-roiie c • gave away 



a liver and white specimen to a friend, fdstone was right to 

 give him away I I don't wonder he didn't wont to keep him, 

 because the spaniel color was mo prominent. Let us see what 

 |i.-.i;<id says, page h'l (Dalriel is the only authority 1 havei 

 me): "Tliei ' 



writers and breeders that " 

 derived from the spaniel; indeed tl, 

 conclusive, the family likeness ie 

 strongly preserved, mid in some kei 

 j pretty much lo their own blood, 



lent 

 • present dog fs largely 

 proofs of tins are very 

 in many respects, yet 

 iels where they have kept 

 wing ihu-erentlinesfrom 

 1 field trial breeders, this is most markedly so. 

 No more pronounced instance of this has conic under inv 

 notice for years than a number of dogs, all of the same blood, 

 shown by the Earl of Carlisle and other gentlemen at the 

 Border Counties Show at Carlisle in January, 1877, Thev 

 were mostly liver aud white in color, stood higher than tho 

 show bench spaniel, shorter and rounder in the head than the 

 present day setter, but strong useful looking dogs, showing a 

 lot of spaniel character in treueral formation, carriage of ears, 

 and coat and feathering, the coat having a strong tendency 

 to curl and some of them having as distinct a top-knot as i he 

 Iris's water spaniel, although not so large." Now. Mr. Rice 

 has cited some dogs which were so nearly allied to spaniels as 

 these of Lord Carlisle's, aud it goes to prove just what i bave 

 always contended, that liver color is peculiarly the spaniel's, 

 aud is not sought for in a good "present day" setter. In an 

 earlier letter to vour journal I touched on this very thing. 

 These dogs were kept aloof from other strains and colors and 

 hence perpetuated the spaniel color, liver. And they had top 

 knot ornaments, too. like aliver-colored water spaniel I Again. 

 Idstone gives on page 1U7, the different fashionable colors of 

 the present day setter, and liver is not even mentioned. I can 

 not refer to other authorities as my books are in New York. 

 But I am very certain liver color is the hist ,„„-. desired by any 

 experienced English or Amei iean sportsman, and is in.i given 

 as a favorite in the books. I see no reason to change mv state- 

 ment to which Mr. Rico objects. This dislike of mine may Be 

 a mere "whim'' as Mr. Rice asserts, but it i- ,-• 'whim" shared 

 by manv able judges, aud certainly was indulged here many 

 years ago, the North of Englaud tufted head tops, and tne 

 beautiful dry goods '"trade mark,"' to the contrary notwith- 

 standing. 



One of the most accomplished and brilliant of America's 

 writ ,-is on held sports aud dogs— a real lover of them— one who 

 now sleeps in eternal silence, and above whose grave th e 

 weeds of neglect should never be allowed to overshadow the 

 dowers of remembrance— Frank Forester— never could abide 

 , ; ii,-., -colored setter, any more than be could tho deformity 



ml 

 right 



I Kit II 



eh. 



s, Mr. Hi. 



i the 1. die 



How many liver-colored setters do yo 

 Scarcely one. 



Mr. Rice linds much fault with my statement that there 

 have been thousands of ben. h shows abroad where we have 

 had one. This may be. an exaggemtion. eerlainlv a harmless 

 one. But 1 accept' his challenge as to the thousand. Almost 

 every day in the year there are two or three tench shows in 

 different parts of England, not grand shows like the Crystal 

 Palace, Birmingham, or Westminster Kennel Club exhibitions, 

 but those where many dogs of many breeds are displayed to 

 the gaze of manv hundreds of human beings, and many prizes 

 are offered for competition. I doubt very much if you can 

 find a town of auv size or importance in England that does 

 not have its bench show once or twice, or even three times 

 during the year. Most assuredly there are several 

 hundred shows of this kind held annually there, 

 and in Ireland and Scotland there are a great many, and 

 in France and GFermany also. A correspondent of your jour- 

 nal. •■Maharg." in this weeks Issue, fortunately writes to you 

 from Belfast. Ireland, and strangely enough more than sup- 

 ports my statement. According to him, there have been 

 nearer to "thousands" for the past ten or twelve years than a 

 "thousand." where we have held one. For we have had but a 

 handful. Inaccepting Mr. Bice's "challenge'' it. will be very 

 difficult to prove anything in this matter, as a great many 

 shows may not be entitled to be called ••recorded shows." 

 Hut upon rny word, sir, this was a small and boyish matter 

 for Mr. Rice to tako exception to, aud unworthy of his facile 

 and flexible pen. It only shows how very meagre was hia 

 supply of powder and shot with which to "down or browbeat 



Mr. Rice again objects to my preference for the -gallant 

 and untiring Gordon, " and seeins to infer that I intended to 

 convey the idea that my preference was for the black and tan 

 setter' over aud above all others. This wis not mv intention, 

 however. I simply manifested a liking for the Gordon - tter 

 on account of his (to me) bounty of color, oi form, and stj Ie 

 generally, which, in my humble estimation, surpasses that) of 

 an. I.a'veraek setter 'l ever saw. I mean a No. I Gordon. 

 This is a i.ere matter of opinion, however— perhaps a "whim " 

 1 called the Gordon "gallant and untiring." All Gordons, I 

 will grant, are not so wonderfully enduring in the field. One 

 Of my own, long since "mouldering in the dust," Was 

 the most- perfect field performer I almost ever ; ,,w. 

 His endurar.ee was unsurpassed. He has -knocked up" 

 two good English setters between sunrise and sun.-. I, 

 and then been fresh enough al break of day to be ready for a 

 romp and a run before breakfast, Fei haps t judged too much 

 by the dear old fellow's performance of duty. Still 1 do not 

 surrender yet, without a struggle, my admiration of the 

 •thndoii," and my assertion thai he is "untiring-" although 

 not so much so as the bold Irish red. Dolziel says, page 111, 

 "As a working dog the black and tan is excellent ■' * * 

 Re is not so fast as the Laverack. and in the opinion oj! many 

 not so enduring, but on this hitter point [have a different 

 opinion, having known dogs of this breed work constantly in 

 i-ouch hill shooting without being knocked up, and for this 

 kind of work his superior bone and muscle seem to adapt him 

 better than the lighter and more elegant Laverack." Thus 

 Dalziel Hut th, re ore manv sportsmen in this country who: 



ieWS 



valua 



icfc 



or I. low. -Uiii liu-y ever shot. over, and who I 

 as "untiling." 'Todgers" likes the Gordon iinmei- 

 lieve. Let Mr, Rice remember, however. I do not claim 

 fur him that he is more enduring than English and Irish set- 

 ters as a general thing, and there is nothing in my tis.e of the 

 words "gallanl and untiring" to cause him logically to draw 



ich a 



iclu: 





i penny 



ugly, 



r it i 



and should be condemned as 

 straighl line, the better 



, is admissible. If this 

 ,; I do combat it, and lustilj and 



ated the Letter. Ii is a u, 

 such. The nearer it apprc 

 it looks and is. or a -gentle 

 is "fighting the standard, " 



heartily combat it: 1 have seen a -emu-tar. ana it nas not as 

 much curve as a sickle. Aud I re-assert that there were 

 manv setters present ai this famous bench slew in May last, 

 which has caused so much discussion and abuse, and si 

 lot of boyish twaddle in the way of picking Haws in your cor- 

 respondents' statements, which did "carry defiantly si, I 



,,- laiis." winch tails, in several instances, wagged and 

 waved in a complete curl over their owm ,-v backs .■.ml winch 

 tails (agiun to repeat) were also carried in tho limpest sort of 



