12 INVESTIGATION OF THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OF ALASKA. 



Mr. Elliott. They were suppressed from the committee. 



Mr. McGuire. I do not know anything about the records up there, 

 but we have in the testimony details as to the killing of seals. The 

 department officials and scientists were brought here as to these 

 measurements, and from that testimony Mr. Elliott reached his con- 

 clusion that they were yearlings. But they all differed from Mr. 

 Elliott. Now, personally I understand this to be just a recapitulation 

 of the testimony that we have already received except as to these 

 records about which he speaks. While I do care about the records, 

 I do not care to go over this again; I know his testimony, and know 

 the testimony of all the rest of them. 



The Chairman. I do not think he went into this; I never heard 

 who was responsible for the killing of these young seals and whether 

 there was an order from Secretary Carlisle on record when this was 

 done, and if that is the case it brings us back to this: I would like to 

 know who is responsible for killing seals in violation of Treasury 

 orders, whether they were the lessees, the Government agents, or 

 anybody else. I consider that the entire combination is responsible 

 to the Government if that fact is true. 



Mr. McGuire. Certainly, but here is my position: That if Mr 

 Elliott is permitted to recapitulate this for the sake of emphasis 



The Chairman. Oh, no. 



Mr. McGuire. That it would be proper to call persons who were 

 more competent than he and who were in charge, and all that sort of 

 thing, in order to determine whether any order of the Treasury 

 Department was violated. Now, my position is that the preponder- 

 ance of testimony is against Mr. Elliott; that is my position. The 

 chairman may feel different about it, but the thing that seems unfair 

 to Dr. David Starr Jordan, whom we all respect as one of the eminent 

 men of the country, is to allow some statements to go in the record 

 that might require his attendance or do him an injustice, and the same 

 is true of the officials of the department, and I also doubt whether 

 we want to go back and go over these hearings again. 



The Chagrman. I never heard that David Starr Jordan was to be 

 held responsible for the unlawful killing of seals as a matter of vio- 

 lating Secretary Carlisle's order, and if it can be shown that he was on 

 the islands and did order the killing of seals in violation of the regula- 

 tions, we certainly ought to know it, and then Dr. Jordan can come 

 here or stay in California, as he pleases. However, what I would 

 like to ask Mr. Elliot i i- ( hi : What facts can you submit to show that 

 he is responsible for that '. 



Mr. Elliott. They are all in this report, in complete, authentic 

 detail. 



The Chairman. Explain it to the committee. 



Mr. Elliott. I have. I have said that he had full knowledge of 

 those regulations, because they were published on the islands a week 

 before he got there. He came up with supplementary orders, gov- 

 erned everything, and took full authority. He had absolute control 

 of the killing, and then he reported to the Treasury Department, on 

 November 1, 1896, that 30,000 seals were killed during that year; 

 that 20,000 of them were 3-year-olds, and that the balance were 

 large 2-year-olds, when in fact not over 7,500 of them were 3-year- 

 olds and eight thousand and odd — taking Lembkey's testimony, 



