120 INVESTIGATION OF THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OF ALASKA. 



Q. Do you remember the visit of Dr. Jordan to this island in 1896- 

 97?— A. Yes. 



Q. The lessees took every seal that they could get in 1896, 30,000. 

 Did Dr. Jordan supervise that killing on the ground, day after day, 

 as it was done ? — A. They did not see him. They saw him once in 

 a while on the killing grounds, but not often. 



Q. Was he there on the killing grounds more than a few hours, all 

 told, during the whole season ? — A. (See answer to previous question.) 



Q. Did he ever watch and tally a killing of seals ? — A. (See answer 

 to second last question.) 



Q. Who tallied that podding and killing when he was there in 

 1896-97 ? — A. Only the Government agents. 



Q. Was it done at all ? — A. They were counted by the Government 

 agents, but they did not see Dr. Jordan do so. 



Q. Do you remember when the natives first began to drive the 

 holluschickie off from the rookeries where they had hauled out among 

 the cows ? — A. They do not remember the year, but they remember 

 that it was when they started to count the seals and the pups upon 

 the rookeries; but before that, they say, they remember that those 

 cows came among the seals in August. 



Q. Did you ever use whistles when you drove those young seals 

 out from the shelter of the rookeries? — A. No. They used to use 

 them, but do not use them now. They just run in and yell and clap 

 their hands. Most of them do not remember that they used them, 

 only the older men. 



Q. Did you ever report that work to the Government agents? — 

 A. Yes; it was always reported to the Government agents. The 

 Government agents told them to look out and not kill cows. They 

 all know the cows, but they go to drive at 12 o'clock midnight, when 

 it is dark, and they can not see whether there are cows out among the 

 holluschickie, and that is why they have been taking them. In day- 

 time, when they haul up the holluschickie, if there are cows among 

 them, they separate the cows as much as they can. They did not tell 

 the Government agent that they did not like to do that, but if they 

 drove a cow among the seals they always told the agent of the Gov- 

 ernment. They say the Government agent told them to look out 

 for that kind of drives. They say they said nothing about that to 

 the Government agent, but the Government agent told them not to 

 make that kind of drives, but to look out for it. They made them 

 because they could not help it, as it was sometimes done in the dark. 

 The chiefs ordered them to make the drives. All those chiefs are now 

 dead. When they were asked to make these drives, they told the 

 Government agents they could not help but take cows, and they 

 also told it to the chiefs, but they did not make the drives where the 

 cows were. Karp Buterin says that the drivers do not go too near 

 to where the cows are. He says those cows were that way when the 

 company was here, and at that time the company did not bother 

 the cows, but when they started counting the seals that caused the 

 cows to get mixed up with the seals. 



Q. Who gave you orders to go in among the cows and drive out 

 those small seals — holluchickie?— A. The chief; and the chief gets 

 his orders from the Government agent, but in the company's time 

 they had been getting orders from the company's agent. The com- 



