INVESTIGATION OF THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OF ALASKA. 267 



Mr. Lembkey. The committee can see what Mr. Fraser states. Mr. Fraser states that 

 small pups measured 33$ inches in length. 



Mr. Elliott. From there [indicating] to there [indicating]. 



Mr. Lembkey. Thirty-three and three-quarters inches in length, and extra small pups 

 measured SO inches in length. 



Mr. Elliott. Then yon have some extra small pups there which makes it 8,000. 



Mr. Lembkey. Only 11 of those. 



Mr. Elliott. It does not amount to anything. 



Mr. Lembkey. It just makes your 8,000 about 300 more than the actual number. 



Mr. Lembkey can not sensibly dispute the fact that he has taken 

 7,733 "yearling" seals in 1910; and this done in open violation of 

 the law and regulations of the department which he is sworn to obey 

 and enforce, and which he quotes to the committee (on p. 372) as 

 follows : 



Mr. Madden. If they were hilled it ivould be a violation of law. 



Mr. Lembkey. It would; if the regulations permitted it, however, it would be in 

 accordance with existing law. 



It should be remembered also that the law does not prohibit the killing of any male 

 seal over 1 year or 12 months of age, although regulations of the department do prohibit 

 the hilling of anything less than 2 years old, or those seals which have returned to the 

 islands from their second migration. 



Mr. Townsend. That is a regulation of the Secretary of Commerce and Labor? 



Mr. Lembkey. Of Commerce and Labor; yes, sir. 



Mr. Young. Let me before you pass from that ask this: You weigh these green 

 skins on the islands, and then measure them in the markets in London. What is your 

 purpose in iceighing. and what is their purpose in measuring? 



Mr. Lembkey. Our purpose in weighing the shins on the island is to get them within 

 the weights prescribed by the regulations. Our regulations prescribe maximum and 

 minimum weights. Those weights are 5 pounds 



Mr. Young. Does that relate to the question of age? 



Mr. Lembkey. Five pounds and eight and one-half pounds. 



Mr. Young. Passing from the weight, in London what is the determining purpose in 

 measuring? 



Mr. Lembkey. They measure them, I fancy 



Mr. Young. Are they trying to arrive at the question of age, too? 



Mr. Lembkey. They are trying to get the size of the shin or the amount of fur on the 

 animal. 



Mr. Young. They care nothing about the question of age there? 



Mr. Lembkey. Nothing at all. 



Mr. Young . That is all I care to ask. 



That these natives know what they are doing when directed by 

 the lessees to kill seals, the following testimony of Chief Special Agent 

 Lembkey fully attests; it is found on page 58 of manuscript notes 

 of Ways and Means hearing, January 25, 1907. 



Mr. Lembkey. I may say, Mr. Chairman, that the clubbers on the island are expert 

 in their business, and they can determine the weight of a skin on a live seal to within 

 a fraction of a pound. 



Mr. Grosvenor. That is all I wanted to know. 



Mr. Lembkey. They also know the age of a seal from his appearance. 



Manuscript notes, page 59: 



Mr. Clark. These experts can tell a 4-year-old from a 3-year-old, can they? 

 Mr. Lembkey. By looking at him. 

 Mr. Clark. By looking at him? 

 Mr. Lembkey. Yes. 

 Mr. Clark. They are pretty expert. 

 Mr. Xeedham. Are these killers, "natives"? 



Mr. Lembkey. Yes, they are natives. I can state positively that they arrive at 

 that degree of experience. 



