360 INVESTIGATION OF THE ETJB-SEAL INDUSTRY OP ALASKA. 



Bowers swears that Townsend 

 advised him as a member of the 

 fur-seal advisory board. 



Mr. Patton. These recommendations 

 were made to your bureau? 



Mr. Bowers. Yes. 



Mr. Patton. And were not made by 

 you at all? 



Mr. Bowers. No, sir. 



Mr. Patton. But were made by this 

 advisory board? 



Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. [Reading:] 



" It is recommended that, for the pres- 

 ent, no fur-seal skin weighing more than 

 8£ pounds or less than 5 pounds shall be 

 taken, and that not more than 95 per cent 

 of the 3-year-old male seals be killed in 

 any one year." (Hearing No. 2, p. Ill, 

 June 9, 1911.) 



But Townsend swears he does 

 not know anything of the job, and 

 does not know what he said to 

 Nagel. 



The Chairman. What do you know of 

 the composition of the catch of 12,920 fur- 

 seal skins taken by orders of Hon. Charles 

 Nagel, Secretary of Commerce and Labor, 

 and Mr. George M. Bowers, United States 

 Fish Commissioner, during the season of 

 1910 on the Pribilof Islands? 



Dr. Townsend. I am not posted on the 

 composition of that catch. The catch 

 made on the islands is supposed to be 

 made from seals that are over 1 year old, 

 from the 2-year-olds and from some of the 

 small 3-year-olds. Perhaps I should say 

 the 3-year-olds with some of the smaller 

 4-year-olds and the larger 2-year-olds. I 

 do not remember exactly what they were 

 killing, but they were skins of sizes which 

 were highly marketable, and that the fur 

 trade could use to the best advantage. 

 It does not make a great deal of difference 

 what size skins you take so long as you do 

 not take too many of the males. 



The Chairman. How many of these 

 12,920 skins are skins not taken from seals 

 under 2 years of age? 



Dr. Townsend. I have not examined 

 the records of their ages or the records of 

 their sizes, and can not answer the ques- 

 tion without consulting the records. 



The Chairman. Did you have a talk 

 with Secretary Nagel after he received, 

 on May 10, 1910, the printed protest of 

 the Camp Fire Club of America against 

 the issue of the orders to kill 13,000 seals 

 during the season of 1910? 



Dr. Townsend. I have frequently 

 called on Secretary Nagel when I have 

 been in Washington, and I have discussed 

 seal matters with him, but what I have 

 said to him I can not say. I do not re- 

 member discussing that point with him. 



The Chairman. What did you discuss 

 with him? 



Dr. Townsend. Matters pertaining to 

 the seal islands in general. 



The Chairman. Did Secretary Nagel 

 consult with you before sending his reply 

 of May 15. 1910, to this protest of the 

 Camp Fire Club? 



Dr. Townsend. I do not remember. I 

 do not remember that I ever talked over 

 the matter with Mr. Nagel until after the 

 Camp Fire Club had been agitating the 

 matter for some time. 



The Chairman. Well, you did discuss 

 it with him, didn't you? 



Dr. Townsend. t have discussed fur 

 seals with him. (Hearing No. 13, p. 801, 

 June 8, 1912.) 



