366 INVESTIGATION OF THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OF ALASKA. 



any effort to ascertain what the evidence 

 was that was on file in the department? 



Dr. Townsend. No. (Hearing No. 12, 

 p. 774, May 25, 1912; Hearing No. 13, p. 

 818, June 8, 1912). 



Townsend swears that it was no 

 concern of his when he learned 

 that the Lewis's claim was fraud- 

 ulent — he was a " youngster" at 

 the time he vouched for it. 



The Chairman. Don't you know that 

 the Liebes received that money? 



Dr. Townsend. I know that damages 

 were awarded in favor of the United States 

 for these vessels, but how much was al- 

 lowed to the owners of this vessel I do not 

 know. 



The Chairman. Don't you know that 

 the Liebes received it? 



Dr. Townsend. I do not know. T sup- 

 pose they did. I presume they did. The 

 case was decided in favor of the United 

 States, and I have no doubt they were 



?aid; but from personal knowledge of it, 

 can not say. 



The Chairman. Do you swear that they 

 did not receive it? 



Dr. Townsend. No, sir. 



The Chairman. Will you swear that 

 they did not own the vessel? 



Dr. Townsend. No, sir; I certainly 

 could not do that. 



The Chairman. Don't you know that 

 they did own it? 



Dr. Townsend. I think they owned it; 

 yes, sir; and they probably were paid. I 

 am simply avoiding the making of a state- 

 ment about a thing of which I am not ab- 

 solutely positive. 



The Chairman. Do you know whether 

 it was important that the Government offi- 

 cials or the Secretary of the Treasury 

 should have found out that the Liebes 

 were the owners of this vessel in order that 

 they could take proper action, so far as the 

 lease was concerned, or upon the bond that 

 was given by the company to the Govern- 

 ment? 



Dr. Townsend. No, sir; I was a good 

 deal of a youngster, and I did not meddle 

 with those matters of the Government 

 that did not concern me at all. (Hearing 

 No. 13, p. 805, JuneS, 1912.) 



five rookeries at once and on the same 

 days; they got away from all of them, 

 except Northeast Point, with seals and 

 no casualties. (Hearing No. 4, p. 184, 

 July 11, 1911.) 



But Townsend was 43 years 

 old — an old " youngster" to plead 

 the baby act He was born in 

 1859. He vouched for this job in 

 1902. 



Townsend, Charles Haslcins: Zoologist, 

 b. Parnassus, Pa., September 29, 1859. 

 * * * fisheries expert Russo-American 

 Arbitration at The Hague, 1902 * * *. 

 Address, Aquarium, New York. (Who's 

 Who in America, 1912-13, p. 2113.) 



(Note. — This is Townsend's own de- 

 scription of his age and standing when he 

 vouched for the pirate McLean and lessee 

 Liebes's claim as being "just and valid" 

 at The Hague, June-July, 1902.) 



