706 INVESTIGATION OF THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OF ALASKA. 



Mr. Elliott. Well, it is in there now, and its vital points are 

 here to-day. 



That such a physical examination never was made by any one of 

 these subordinate agents of Secretary Nagel or his predecessors, at 

 any time since 1890, was also admitted by them, under cross-exami- 

 nation, Feb. 4, 1911. Mr. Lembkey was compelled to admit that 

 he did not know whether female skins were taken, or not ; no penalty 

 for killing them was inflicted. 



Mr. McLean. After the skins are removed, can you distinguish between a male and 

 female 2-year-old? 



Mr. Lembkey. Yes, sir; at once. Oh, I beg pardon — 2-year-olds? 



Q. After the skin is removed from the animal? — A. If you "would look at the carcass 

 of a 2-year old you could not distinguish it readily, but the man skinning the seal 

 recognizes it the moment he takes it into his hand to skin it. Of course he examines 

 the organs and matters of that kind. 



Q. But the animal is then dead? — A. The animal is then dead. 



Q. What I asked you was this — after the skin is removed from the animal, by the 

 inspection of the skin itself could you distinguish between a male or a female 2-year 

 old? — A. You could by looking at the teats of the animal. 



Q. And are they developed on a 2-year-old female? — A. I don't know that they are. 

 You could find them there possibly. I don't know whether they are developed or 

 not; I never examined a skin to find out. 



The Chairman. How positive can you be, then, Mr. Lembkey, that no females are 

 killed? 



Mr. Lembkey. The reason upon which I base that positive statement that no 

 females are killed is this: Stringent orders are given to all the skinners to report at 

 once any female knocked down in the drives. They are ordered to report it to the 

 agent in charge of the killing and in charge of the men. 



Mr. McLean. Is there a penalty then inflicted upon the killer for killing the female 

 and when he reports it? 



Mr. Lembkey. No; because the killing gang consists of six persons, we will say, 

 and it is impossible to tell which one of those six knocked down the seal; but if a 

 female should be knocked down by accident an admonition is given to the clubbers. 



Q. So that it is quite possible? — A. They are jacked up. 



Q. It is quite possible if a female was killed through inadvertence that the native 

 might not report it? — A. No; because the man who reports the presence of the female 

 would not in the least be culpable, because he is a skinner, having nothing to do with 

 the killing. 



Q. He is probably a relative? — A. I should not say that. There is no great penalty 

 attached to the killing of a female, such as to lead the men to suppress the fact of its 

 presence. (Dixon hearing, U. S. Senate Com. Cons. Nat. Resources, pp. 15, 16, Feb. 

 4, 1911.) 



The Chairman. Who is Mr. McLean % 



Mr. Elliott. This was at the "Dixon hearing," February 4, 1911, 

 the Senate Committee on Conservation of National Resources hearing. 

 I have it all set out here. Mr. McLean was counsel for the Camp 

 Fire Club, of America. He was down here when we were "jacking 

 them up," in Secretary Nagel's department and when they were 

 attempting, you know, to run this thing over us. 



Therefore, when the returns annually are made to us from London 

 by the brokers, who have measured each and every sealskin taken 

 by these lessees, and the Government agents aforesaid, since 1890 

 up to date of 1912, the}^ declare the fact that more than 128,000 

 "small pups" and "extra small pups" skins have been taken from 

 the herd since 1S90, or as so many "yearlings." 



The Chairman. Let me ask vou right there this question: Are 

 those figures. 12S.000, until the end of the season of 1912 ? 



Mr. Elliott. Xo; of the lessees' season; 20 years of the lessees. 

 I have not followed it into the other } T ears. 



