794 INVESTIGATION OP THE FUR-SEAL INDUSTRY OE ALASKA. 



Mr. Elliott. No, sir. Not until the promulgation of the Carlisle 

 rules in 1896, was any regulation ever made which prohibited the 

 killing of yearlings, even. 



Mr. Stephens. When were they promulgated? 



Mr. Elliott. May 14, 1896. 



Mr. Stephens. Have they been in force ever since ? 



Mr. Elliott. They have been in force ever since. They have 

 never been amended. But this killing of 5,000 small four and five 

 months old male pups, when there were more than 1,000,000 pups on 

 the islands, was perfectly innocuous. 



Mr. McGuire. How about the yearlings at that time ? 



Mr. Elliott. Nobody cared anything about them. They killed 

 annually a few hundred of them for pup blankets. There was no regu- 

 lation prohibiting it. 



Mr. McGuire. In your monograph at page 69 you say that 5,743 

 pups under 6 months old and an unstated number of yearlings 



Mr. Elliott (interposing). Yes; nobody kept track of them. 



Mr. McGuire (continuing). Of which 5,806 were rejected by the 

 compan3 r , were killed in 1880. 



Mi*. Elliott. No; I did not say any yearlings were killed by the 

 Government or the lessees. That is a statement by Gen. Otis. That 

 must have been a footnote to his report, which I have got in my 

 monograph. 



Mr. McGuire. Yes. 



Mr. Elliott. But nobody wanted in 1872-1874—1884 any year- 

 lings. They were of no value. Therefore no regulation appeared 

 because no yearlings were taken by the lessees until Secretary Car- 

 lisle learned in May, 1S96, that the lessees were going to take year- 

 lings; then he put out these regulations forbidding that killing, 

 May 14, 1896. 



Mr. McGuire. Now, Mr. Elliott, there was some contention yes- 

 terday as to your attitude and the attitude of the representatives 

 from the department with respect to whether a sealskin is lighter 

 when it is first taken from the seal or whether it is lighter after it 

 has been salted for shipment to the place of final disposition or sale. 

 I ask you whether at a former hearing you did not state that the 

 skins were heavier after they were salted than when they were taken 

 from the seal '-. 



Mr. Elliott. I have always stated that, and I do now. 



Mr. McGuire. Then your position is that when a skin is taken from 

 the seal with a reasonable amount of blubber and weighed and salted, 

 as they salt them for shipment, after it has laid in the salt for some 

 time, for some weeks, and whatever juice; are extracted by the dis- 

 solution of the salt are separated from the skins, that the skins will be 

 heavier; is that right? 



Mr. Elliott. You are putting words in my mouth which I did not 

 say. 



Mr. McGutre. T am asking you a question. 



Mr. Elliott. Why, you are assuming that I took that ground. 



Mr. McGuire. I am asking you what ground you took? 



Mr. Elliott. I took the ground that the skin is increased in weight 

 bv the salt that is put on it when it is packed as cured and leaves the 

 islands; my additional experience with 400 skins last summer ha-; 

 again proved it. Every one of them was increased in weight. 



