FOREST AND STREAM 
- ,374 
'i**'—“—- 
GORDON SETTERS AND RETRIEVERS. 
Faversham, June 23d, 1874. 
Editor Forest and Stream:— 
I can get broken Gordons at £35 to £40 the brace, and ordinary setters, 
well broken, at about £30 the brace; spaniels at about £15 the brace; 
beagles at £ 12 ; retrievers would be about £20 apiece wavy or curly. 
I have now two retrievers—bitches—one wavy and one curly, tolerably 
broken, at £20 apiece. I will start any dogs you want by the steamer, 
but of course the buyers must stand carriage and all risks after the dogs 
* leave my hands. 
I am, however, not much “taken up” with dog dealing, as the men 
who buy dogs are always disappointed, and always abuse the vendor 
frightfully. 
I cannot send dogs without first receiving the money, nor can I return 
the money and take back the dogs What I will do is this: If a friend 
of yours wants a £20 setter, for instance, let him send me £20 through 
you and I will use my best discretion in procuring a setter worth £20 by 
trying him beforehand, &c. I shall not require any commission. 
I merely throw out these suggestions in case you may require any 
dogs. I really don’t care about the business; yon get so much abuse and 
annoyance. My father is sick of it and talks about selling out, though he 
has been very successful. Idstone, Jr. 
--- 
Newton, Sussex Co., N. J., July 9th, 1874. 
On the day of the unveiling of the Waddell and An¬ 
derson kennel at this place, I had the pleasure of 
meeting and dining with not only yourself', but with Col. 
Skinner and Mr. Busby, field and agricultural editor of the 
Turf, Field and Farm , Mohawk, Gopher, Shipman, Nor¬ 
throp,_ Morgord, and others, all gentlemen after my own 
heart in the way of sportsmanship and fellowship. Since 
you were here Mr. Morgord sold his famous setter Joe at a 
high figure— $500. This would appear to many persons a 
very high price to pay for any dog, and it is certainly a 
very liberal one, but I have done considerable shooting 
over this dog, both in Iowa, Wisconsin, and in this State, 
and can aver that he is not only a splendid specimen of a 
high bred setter, but is superbly broken, has a stylish way 
of going, has an excellent nose", very staunch on game, and 
is perfectly broken to retrieve on land or water. ^Although 
I have never had the pleasure of shooting with Mr. S., 
• the purchaser, yet from conversation with him I am con¬ 
vinced that he is a skilful shootist, and will appreciate 
such a dog. I would say, however, that Joe is a slashing 
high strung dug, and it requires a prompt, energetic master 
to control him. 
Since Mr. M. parted with Joe he-has taken in hand and 
is now shooting over Frank, a full brother to Joe, also a 
splendid looking and very superior setter, which will, I 
think, in such skilful hands, soon be as valuable a dog as 
Joe. When you gentlemen were -at this place you saw a 
very stylish, white young setter named Bob, owned by Mr. 
James JNortliup; this dog was got by Joe, and is out of 
Fiy, Jr., bred from my old imported white setter bitch Fly. 
Since the woodcock season opened Harris and I have had 
some shooting over this dog, and now, although I have 
been shooting full forty-five years over the very best dogs 
I could procure in this country or in Europe, I can truth¬ 
fully say I never saw a better, if as good, a dog of his age. 
He is only sixteen months old. I am now shooting over 
my setter Czar—the Blue Belton described in Forest and 
Stream some weeks ago—and a better broken, more 
staunch, better retriever, or more pleasant dog to shoot 
over lias rarely ever fallen to the lot of 
Yours truly, Horace Smith. 
GAME IN SEASON FOR JULY. 
Woodcock, philohela minor. . Squirrels, 
Details of pigeon shooting and scores of rifle matches , and other interest¬ 
ing matter , should be mailed so as to reach this office on Tuesday morning 
in each week. 
—Woodcock in the market, fairly plenty. Of course 
New York draws all the birds of the United States into the 
market. From a pretty close calculation, we suppose 
about 1,800 single birds come into New York weekly. 
Long Island birds scarce. Bulk of cocks coming from 
Kewana, Illinois. Some few from Michigan. Price $1.50 
a pair. Birds generally small, though in good condition. 
—The bay snipe are beginning to arrive off Cape May, 
but not in quantities. 
—A letter from St. Paul, Minnesota, speaks of excellent 
woodcock shooting on the Minnesota River bottom about 
twelve miles from that city, and bags of thirty to sixty per 
gun each da}' are mentioned casually as if nothing remark¬ 
able. The birds are still small, yet have been shot at for 
three weeks past. Pity ’tis, ’tis true. 
---- 
PINNATED GROUSE IN IOWA. 
Cedar Rapids, Iowa, June l5tli, 1874. 
Editor Forest and Stream:— 
In answer to a correspondent as to where he could find 
chicken shooting, with elk or deer, you directed him to Nor¬ 
way, 18 miles from this city. Let me say that you are 
partly in error. Chicks are scarce in that vicinity. A per¬ 
son might go out after the I4tii of August, and find once in 
a while a covey of chicks; he might, with a good dog, bag 
from seven to twelve chickens, and have to work mighty 
hard. Now, if one wants a good chicken country West, 
let him either take the Illinois Central from Chicago to 
Cedar Falls, then the Burlington, Cedar Rapids, and Min¬ 
nesota Railroad to Greene, or the Milwaukee and St. Paul 
to Plymouth (both roads run into each other), and from 
Greene (look at the map), above Austin, Minnesota—don’t 
talk of shooting, but slaying—a couple of good shots with 
dogs can bring in from 50 to 150 brace of chickens. 
1 will guarantee any sportsman, or party, good sport, quail 
and pheasants all lie wants, and up to the 15tli of Decem¬ 
ber the Canada geese, brandt, sand hill cranes, ducks, ex¬ 
cept canvas backs, and a few wild turkeys. You can refer 
them to me any time. For elk and deer you have to go 
farther North into Minnesota. Yours, &c., 
Fred. Day.. 
--- 
—The tournament of the Cincinnati Shooting and Fishing 
Chib commenced at the Carthage Fair Grounds on Tuesday, 
21st instant, to continue four days. Prizes to the amount 
of $1,000 offered. On the fourth day are single and double 
bird sweepstakes. 
—The pigeon shoot of the Skaneateles Sportsmen’s Club' 
on the 11th instant was very interesting, although wind and 
rain operated unfavorably. First match, 10 birds, for the 
champion pitcher: J. H. Earl), 7; G. Rawlins, 8. Second 
match, sweepstakes at 10 birds, 21 yards, three prizes, with 
the following score: E. D. Wheadon, 9; II. Tliurlow, 6; 
George Rawlins, 2; R. B. Harmon, 8; J. P. Wheadon, 10; 
J. Horatio Earll, 8; W. II. Crosier, 7. J. P. Wheadon 
won. The tie of 9 was shot off at 26 yards, 5 birds each: 
E. D. Wheadon, 5; George Rawlins, 2„ The tie of 8, 
5 birds each, 26 yards rise; R. B. Harmon, 5; J. Horatio 
Earll, 2. Third match, at 5 birds, 21 yards, 80 yards 
boundary, nine contestants; won by Mr. Shepard with 5 
birds; five ties of 4 birds each. Fourth match at 5 double 
rises, 18 yards rise, 100 yards boundary. The sun at this 
time was shining directly in the contestant’s faces, making 
it almost impossible for them to see their birds as they 
rose from the trap: E. D. Wheadon, 5; George Rawlins, 9; 
W. H Crosier, 5. There being but 10 birds left, Messrs. 
Guppy and Shepard bought them and shot them off on 
double rises with the following result : W. H. Guppy, 5; 
M. Shepard; 2. 
—Capt. Bogardus and Mr. Joll shota match at pigeons 
for $250 a side at Beacon Park, Boston, Mass., which re¬ 
sulted in a victory for the former, Joll giving up at the 
seventy-fifth bird. Joll had ten dead birds to start. Score: 
Joll 56, and Bogardus 69 out of 100. 
—A match for the Champion Pitcher of the Skaneateles 
Sporting Club took place on Wednesday July 8th, between 
JVm. H. Crosier, challenger, aud G. Rawlins, holder, with 
the following result:— 
Ten birds each, 21 yards rise, 80 yards boundary. New 
York State rules. 
W. Crosier.—7 | Rawlins..—7. 
One shot off the tie at 26 yards, Rawlins retained the 
pitcher with the following score:— 
Crosier....1 10 0 1—8 | Rawlins.1 1 1 1 1—5 
Toronto, July 13thl8’74, 
Editor Forest and Stream:— 
It is quite a long time since we have had a shoot for our monthly prize 
of a case of staffed birds. The delay was owing to the scarcity of birds 
suitable to shoot. We succeeded in getting enough good pigeons to¬ 
gether for a shoot last week, so it came off on Thursday, the 9th instant, 
on the Garrison Commons in the west end of the city. The following 
were the scores made':— 
No,me. 
Yards. 
Straight. 
Total. 
Dr. J. Ross.. 
. 21 
7 
9 
J. Taylor.. 
6 
9 
C. C. Small. 
.. 23 
7 
8 
W. Bugg. 
*9 
9 
D. Ward.. 
. 22 
5 
9 
W. Smith. 
.. 22 
3 
5 
R. Ardagh. 
. 21 
3 
6 
C. Pickering. 
.. 21 
4 
7 
J. Chapman. 
3 
8 
J. Morrison. 
8 
8 
W. Loudon. 
. 21 
3 
6 
S. Herring. 
. 21 
2 
6 
^Killed, but fell dead out of bounds; scored against him. 
The ties to be shot off at the next meeting, the contestants to fall back 
3 yards on tbe respective distances. When it comes off I will send you 
the report. Yours very truly, Toronto Gun Club. 
Lawrence, Kan., July 15th. 1874. 
Editor Forest and Stream:— 
I send you herewith report of match shot here on the 4th of July, un¬ 
der the auspices of the Winkle Club of this place. The prize was an oil 
painting, painted for the occasion by Mr. L. C. Earle, an artist well 
known in the West, and who has jnst returned from a two years’ coarse 
of study in Munich. He had the reputation, some three years ago, of 
being about the best artist in the'; West in his particular line (game sub¬ 
jects), and has lost nothing by his European trip. The match w r as par-. 
ticipated in by a number of crack shots from different parts of the State, 
and was eventually won by Mr. Stuart, a member of the Winkle Club. 
In several cases the same party shot one string for himself and another 
for some one else; but in none of such cases was the shooter made 
aware of which string he was shooting on his own account until after the 
termination of the match. To save birds and expedite matters generally, 
several parties dropped out after missing tw r o or three birds, consider¬ 
ing their chances of wanning virtually extinguished. The birds were 
tame pigeons, for the most part strong, old birds, and helped as they were 
by a prairie zephyr (another name for half a gale of wind) required no 
end of killing. The following is the score:— 
Match for an oil painting, valued at $5100, 12 single birds, 21 yards rise, 
80 yards boundary, 14 oz. shot. Ties to be shot off at 3 birds at 26 
yards rise. H and T spring traps. Winkle Club rules. 20 subscribers 
at $5 each. Referee, Charles Chadwick, c. f. after gunmaker’s 
name denotes the central fire breech loader, and m muzzle loader. 
Mime. 
Gun. 
Straight. 
Killed. 
A. H Stuart. 
.Gibbs, c. f. 
. 8 
11 
A. H. Stuart- — 
.ForV. B. Bell. 
. 11 
11 
E. D. Thompson. 
.Davis, c. f. 
. 0 
10 
F. S. Earle. 
.Powell, c. f... ... 
. <5 
10 
W. A. Harris. 
10 . 
W.L. Bullene.. 
.For Binckley. 
. 8 
10 
L. C. Earle. 
.For Davis, Tonies, 
m. 8 
9 
•Tonies Yminp-. 
.Moore, m. . 
. 8 
9 > 
Ben Allen.. 
. 6 
9 
Ben Allen .. 
.Moore, in. 
g 
6 
L. C. Earle. 
6 
W. A. Harris. 
.For Rust. 
. 4 
6 
W. L. Bullene. 
_ Lang, c. f. 
. 6 
6 
TV f Patterson . 
. ,. .Moore, m . 
g 
5 
Bryant . 
3 
5 
X)r A bflplill 
.... - , m . 
3 
3 
3 
11. II. Carpenter — 
. Foster & Co., c. f .. 
-•> 
J. 0. Earle . 
_ Scott, c. f. 
2 
F. E. Boswell . 
_ Powell, c. f . 
2 
• 2 
Dr. Wheeler . 
_ Powell, c. f. 
1 
Ortyx. 
PATTERN AND PENETRATION. 
Editor Forest and Stream:— 
For the information of those sportsmen who may be interested in the 
results of the Chicago Gun Trial, allow me to state that the penetration 
pads were almost exactly the same weight as the English pads of the 
same size, there being only about 4 of an ounce difference. The inferior 
penetration was probably caused by the yielding support behind the pen¬ 
etration pad, and it is to be regretted that the pad was not placed against 
a solid wall, or iron plate, that the penetration might have been correct¬ 
ly determined, for while pattern can be had w ithout much trouble by the 
present system of boring, penetration is difficult to obtain, and taxes 
the ability of the gunmaker to the, utmost. 
Mr. Greener very truly says in his “Modern Breech Loaders:” “Wq 
can get better pattern, but we consider this of less consequence than the 
penetration. A gun that will put 120 pellets in a 30-inch target at 40 
yards, and penetrate35 sheets, is to be preferred to one that will put 170 
and only penetrate 25 sheets.” 
Your Jackson, Miss., correspondent is in’ error about there being but 
one muzzle loader tested, as he will discover by referring to entry No 5 
which was a Geo. T. Abbey muzzle loader, 10 gauge. Pioneer! 
Hannibal, Mo.. July, I874, 
Editor Forest and Stream.— 
An article recently published from a correspondent, and afterwards 
substantially endorsed by an editorial in regard to metal shells, is so 
much at variance with the experience of the writer in regard to them 
that, conceiving the matter to be of much interest to those sportsmen 
who may be shooting far away from their base of supplies, where paper 
shells are difficult to obtain, and to those who, in shooting in ivet 
weather, find it troublesome to keep paper shells dry, but more particu¬ 
larly to those sportsmen—and they are many—who desire to study econ¬ 
omy in the use of ammunition, I crave the privilege of stating for the 
benefit of tbe above mentioned, some few r facts m regard to metal shells 
that may possibly be of benefit. 
Your correspondent states that there are about two sizes difference 
between the metal and paper shell of the same number, and the state¬ 
ment is endorsed by you. I wall preface my statement by saying that 
tbe shells I refer to are those made by tbe U. M. C. Co., of Bridgeport 
Conn. As they are more largely used than those of any other makers' 
the size to w'hich I shall refer is the No. 12; but the others bear about 
the same relation to each other. The calibre of Ely’s 12 shell, as well as 
the paper shell made by the U. M. C. Co., one 11 gauge, the 12 a metal 
shell, are less than 4 size larger by standard gauge, all the difference be¬ 
ing in the thickness of the walls or sides of the shell. The question is 
asked, Why are they not made of the same calibre of the paper? The 
reply is, it is simply a matter of weight. Mr. Fowle, of Newark, N. j,, 
and some other parties bore them out of a blank piece of metal, making 
them the same gauge of the paper shell, but it increases the weight so 
much that they are not suitable to be carried in the field; besides it adds 
more than three times to the cost. When the U. M. C. Co. commenced 
to manufacture the metal shell they found that the chambers of different 
guns varied very much in size, and there were continued complaints 
from one that the shells could not be inserted; from another that they 
burst in the chamber, &c., &c. An investigation showed, as before sta¬ 
ted, that there was no regularity in chambering guns; in fact in the same 
gun there would be so much difference that while the shell would work 
all right in one barrel they would burst in tbe other. The reason wiiy 
so little attention was shown in the matter,especially in low-priced guns, 
was because the paper shell would bear some compression, if the cham¬ 
ber was small, and it made no difference if the shell burst in the larger 
one. In order to overcome this irregularity, the U. M. C. Co. built a 
quantity of gauges of the correct size, and forwarded them to the prom¬ 
inent English manufacturers who work for the American market, and 
urged on them the importance of adopting a uniform size. Among 
those receiving the gauges were Messrs. Scott, Tolley, Green and others, 
and their guns are now built with reference to the use of either paper or 
metal shells. 
It is stated by your correspondent that a gun built to use paper shells 
is not suitable for metal. The causes may be as above stated in refer¬ 
ence to liis gun, of the fault may be in tapering the chamber, which can 
be corrected by any good gunmaker who has the proper tools. 
That guns are, can be, and have been built for a long time, to use 
either the metal or paper sheH with good results, is an established fact 
which cannot be controverted. Also, that a gun built without any ref¬ 
erence to the use of metal can be regulated to use them, providing the 
chamber is the proper size for the paper shell. Scott, Green and Tolley, 
and many others, have fully established this fact. For proof, see the 
tables of the recent published Chicago Gun Trial. There were eight 
guns tested with both paper and metal shells, and the result proves be¬ 
yond a doubt that it is and can be done. The metal shells made by the 
U. M. C. Co. are made to exact sizes, with more care than are paper 
shells; in fact before they are turned out they are gauged to the one- 
thousandth of an inch. When first made they were made straight on 
the outside; now they are tapered, the 12 gauge fourteen-thousandths of 
an inch, and the 10’s fifteen one-thousandths. The reason for so doing 
was because the barrel contracted and expanded more than the shell, 
causing them to stick, besides it allows more latitude in the size of the 
chamber. 
The fact has been fully established that it is the gunmaker, and not the 
shell manufacturer who should be looked to. If auy person who is in¬ 
terested in the matter will do as the writer has done—make a tour of in - 
spection through the works of the Union Metallic Cartridge Company— 
they will find the gentlemanly Superintendent, Col. A. C. Hobbs, of 
lock-picking fame, ever ready and willing to exhibit and explain every 
detaii, and show the visitor every courtesy. He will find that every care 
is used in the manufacture of the metal shells to make them supply all 
the wants of the sportsman. m 
The principal reason why metal shells do not work satisfactorily is on 
account of the too abrupt shoulder from the chamber to the gauge of 
the barrel, many foreign guns having a taper of little more than f of an 
inch; if they are increased to from | to of an inch it will almost surely 
improve the shooting with the paper shell, besides producing satisfac¬ 
tory results - with the metal shell. Statements are made that there is 
danger in carrying metal shells about the person. I have yet to hear of 
an accident by so doing. Some few weeks since the editor of a promi¬ 
nent sporting paper mentioned an accident that recently occurred with a 
metal shell, and made some statements in regard to the danger of using 
them. The article came under the notice of the U. M. C. Co., who ad¬ 
dressed a note to the editor and sent him a Sturtevant shell for exami¬ 
nation, and giving their reasons why they thought them safe. After 
careful examination the editor frankly stated that the objection which 
he had previously entertained was wrong, and that be considered the 
shell safe to carry about the person, stating that it required a hard 
punching blow to explode the primer. Of the various kinds used by the 
writer, comprising those using the Orcutt, Berdan and Sturtevant prim¬ 
ers, I consider the Sturtevant particularly safe: as the cap is small in 
size it is not home on the anvil until the bottom of the cap is belotf the 
face of the shell, and cannot be exploded without being struck a hard 
blow by some small, sharp instrument. In fact in re-cupping the Stur¬ 
tevant shell, if from any cause the cap sticks, it can be struck a smart 
blow with a hammer with no danger of exploding. The writer has 
often used a hammer to re-cap shell, using the No. 1 Berdan primer, the 
re-capper not being to hand, and never yet had an explosion, as they will 
not explode until the primer ha* reached the point of the anvil, and that 
is not done until the bottom of the Cap is below the face of the shell. It 
is, however, a good rule, and one that always ought to be observed, viz: 
to always re-cap the shell while unloaded. Complaint has sometimes 
been made that the primers are not easily ejected when allowed to re¬ 
main on the shell for some time after firing. They ought to be removed 
when the sportsman comes in from the field, it is irue, but the necessity 
for so doing can be obviated by putting an oiled rag in the box with the 
primers 
The writer has 110 interest in the manufacture or sale of metal shells, 
but gives the above as his conclusions, arrived at after a careful exami¬ 
nation and long use of metallic shells, and he also believes they coincide 
with the experiences of many others who have for years used metal 
shells. 
Believing that the matter is of considerable importance to the sports¬ 
man, I would be pleased to see it discussed by those who may have had 
experience in the use of metallic shells. As before stated it is the mat¬ 
ter of weight which causes the manufacturers to make a slight difference 
in the calibre, knowing as they do full \yell that the gunmakers can adapt 
their guns to the use of both the paper and metal; besides, in the case 
of the U. M.-C. Co., they manufacture both paper and metal, the paper, 
