306 



FOREST AND STREAM. 



[May 15, 1884. 



THE PERFORMANCE OF SHOTGUNS. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



"Spicewood" is right. An overcharge of coarse powder 

 in any gun 80 inches and under and 10-gauge and under, will 

 not all burn when discharged. An "overcharge" would be 

 5 drams in a 10, 4£ drams in a 12. and 3 in a 20-gaugo. 

 Shoot such charges in the dark and observe the long stream 

 of burning powder beyond the muzzle. It will not be the 

 mere red heat of the "dirt" or "powder scales left in the 

 gun from former charges," but will exhibit a long blaze of 

 burning powder. Clearly, then, the powder does not all 

 burn in the gun. If all the particles or grains were not ig- 

 nited at once, nor while traveling through the barrels, would 

 it be unreasonable that some were not, after they left the 

 barrels. This experiment has been tried time aud again. 

 Spread sheets of paper on the ground twenty feet long and 

 four or five feet wide; shoot such overloads of coarse pow- 

 der over them horizontally, and after a few shots you can 

 gather from the sheets a charge (small) of unburned powder, 

 and fire it off in the gun again. The only remedy for this 

 waste, is a medium charge of coarse and fine powder mixed 

 half and half in gauges ten and over, and in lesser gauges a 

 medium charge of fine powder. Such medium charges as 

 will all burn in the gun, or nearly all, will be likely to give 

 you the best pattern and penetration of which the gun is 

 capable. 



In our eagerness to make others admire our guns and our 

 ways of shooting, holding and loading, we frequently fall, 

 unintentionally, Into serious errors. For instance, "Sports- 

 man," in the same paper (May 8, 1S84) in his excellent arti- 

 cle on "Two-Eyed Shooting," says: "When yout get a gun 

 to fit. as per above rale, you will find that you will under- 

 shoot rising birds and birds at long distances; therefore, it is 

 advisable to get a gun that shoots a little higher or 'nearly' 

 a lit: Having selected your gun, you have only, when going 

 to shoot, to look at the object to be shot at intently, aud until 

 you fire, with both eyes open. Throw up the gun, and from 

 the moment of throwing the gun up to the time of discharge 

 let there be an interval of about two seconds." (The italics are 

 mine). In conclusion, "Sportsman" says: "The advantage 

 in this kind of shooting is apparent in pond duck-shooting 

 so late in the evening that one cannot see the sights of his 

 gun," etc. Now, if his advice to hold the gun still about 

 two seconds before shooting only applied to duck sitting on 

 the water, or any bird not in motion, no doubt he is correct; 

 but it does not appeal' to be so limited, for he speaks of 

 "snap shots" and "birds rising, and birds at long distances." 



In the latter event, if the gun be held after it is thrown 

 up to the shoulder two seconds and the bird flying at the 

 rate of only 40 miles per hour, it would have flown in two 

 seconds a little over 39 yards. If at 60 miles per hour 

 (about the average spefcd of a scared bird on the wing) the 

 distance flown in Uvo seconds would be over 58 yards. Add 

 to these distances the space between the gunner and the 

 bird at its rise, or at the time when the gun was thrown up 

 to the shoulder (generally from 20 to 40 yards) where would 

 the bird be by the time the two seconds interval had expired ? 

 Evidently from 70 to 100 yards away, too far to hit or kill 

 with any degree of certainty, especially in cover. Two sec- 

 onds of interval is too much. It would not do even if he 

 had advised the carrying- of the gun along with the flight of 

 the bird and shot 20 feet ahead of him. D. W. C. 



Cleveland. Ohio, May, 1884. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



I think that a few facts may not be amiss— and, by the 

 way, let us have facts. By facts I mean actual experience at the 

 target with a counted charge of shot and a measured distance 

 of 40 yards and a circle of 30 inches diameter. All of these 

 long shots in the field prove little or nothing, for they may 

 be made by a gun that don't shoot central, and the shooter 

 happening to hold in the right place, the bird is killed; then 

 some one paces off the distance, taking long steps, and it is 

 45, 50 or 60 yards. "Almo" tells us about killing game 100 

 yards with fro. 10 shot. Any one can satisfy himself as to 

 the killing power of No. 10 shot at this distance, by measur- 

 ing 100 yards and shooting his gun at a target 6 feet square, 

 using No. 10 shot. At this distance the killing force won't 

 be very great, neither will the killing circle be very large. 

 Many a bird have I killed and thought' it a long shot until I 

 measured the distance, and some of the writers will find 60 

 yards is a long way, to say nothing about these 100-yard 

 shots which we hear of. 



For years I have thought a gun should be somewhat in 

 keeping to the caliber of the man using it, and don't think it 

 advisable for any man to load himself down with a gun that 

 he cannot carry "all day and handle with ease. A man who 

 uses a 12-bore, 28 to 30-inch barrels, right barrel cylinder, 

 left barrel choked and sticks to the same gun after he has 

 targeted it and knows the proper charge to use in it, is a 

 hard man to beat. Neither can 1 see any decided advantage 

 in using a 10 bore, 8f pound gun, for the 12-bore of the 

 same weight will kill just as much game, and there is an ad- 

 vantage in the 12-bore as the ammuuition for it costs less. 

 Not long since I saw a letter from a prominent officer in a 

 Western fort, who wanted an 8-borc, 8^-pound built, claim- 

 ins: this was the gun to use, and that the time would come 

 when no other bore or weight of gun would be used. Per- 

 haps that time will come, but doubt it a good deal, and I 

 also know that no good maker would build any such gun, as 

 the proportion of metal and wood differs so much from the 

 caliber of the gun that the beauty and balance would be 

 entirely out of place. I think that a 10-bore ought to weigh 

 from 9'i to 10£ pounds, for this makes a good proportion 

 and a good-looking gun, and 32 inches is long enough to 

 balance, and do not see how there is any benefit to 

 be derived in using a 10-bore, 12-pound gun, as the 10*- 

 pound gun will shoot just as well and will burn all the 

 powder 'necessary and all that will burn to good advan- 

 tage, yet some say a 10-bore, 12-pound gun is the 

 thing to use. When you get over 10* pounds the cali- 

 ber 'should be 8 and the weight 12 to 14 pounds and bar- 

 rels 32 to 34 inches in length. To illustrate the way guns 

 are sold, 1 relate the following, which was told me by the 

 dealer himself: A customer came in to buy a gun and se- 

 lected one that suited him, but wanted to see it shot. The 

 gun was taken into the backyard and a target placed against 

 the building. The proprietor took the gun to the shooting 

 point, which was forty measured yards. This was a long, 

 narrow place between two buildings. Back of the store 

 there was a square place before you entered this narrow 

 lane Telling his customer to step around the comer, he 

 goes to the forty-yard mark and then calls him to look and 

 see where he then stands, which he did; then motioning him 

 back, so as not to be in the way of the charge, he (the pro- 

 prietor) runs up about ten yards, fires and runs back before 

 his customer can see where he fired from. The buyer's eyes 



are upon the target, which, under these circumstances, is a 

 decidedly good one, being made at thirty and not forty 

 yards, as the customer thinks. Being well satisfied, he takes 

 the gun home and tells all his friends what a wonderful 

 shooting gun be has, and produces the target to prove it. 

 But if he should happen to shoot his gun at forty yards and 

 with a counted charge, it would open his eyes. 



Then, again, some one gets a gun, and they tell him the 

 target was made with No. 8 standard, when, if the truth was 

 known, it was No. 9 "trap shot." It is time this humbug- 

 gery was stopped. With one exception, don't know of a 

 single American maker (and very few English) that can tell 

 by actual count what one of their guns will do. Each one is 

 anxious to outdo his opponents, so puts in a heaping measure 

 of shot, shoots his gun a few times, and marks the highest 

 pattern (not the average) made ; and when the gun is actually 

 tested it falls short of what it is marked. Who will be the 

 first maker to give us guns targeted as they should be, and 

 have done with this guesswork? If all the makers adopted 

 this plan, then one could make a comparison of any gun and 

 tell what it ought to do. I think this would save the Forest 

 and Stream answering so many times the question, what 

 ought my gun to do? Personally 1 do not own a gun, and 

 have long hoped to own one of these wonderful guns that 

 shoot so far, kill their game so dead, and make such large 

 targets; and if you know of any such gun for sale, I will 

 give a good round price for one of them. "Octo" did not 

 accept my offer, as he has none to sell, and says he did not 

 claim a good gun would average 440 in a 30-inch circle at 

 40 yards. Had he made his promised experiments before 

 saying "that a good gun at 40 yards, with jj No. 8 Tatham's 

 shot (400 to ounce), and 5 drams of powder, should put 

 375 to 440," he would never have written any such thing for 

 this reason. 



A short distance from where I now write there stands a 

 shooting horse, and pointing north is a target 40 measured 

 yards. Over this horse have been shot the following different 

 makers' guns many is the time and oft: Westley Richards, 

 W. W. Greener, Charles Daly, Clabrough, Scott, Dougall, 

 Remington, Parker, Colt, John A. Nichols, and many 

 others, and as good guns as these makers can make, and not 

 one of them did or will do what the maker claims a good 

 gun ought, And if any of his friends have a gun that will 

 average these figures I would like to purchase it, and will 

 pay more than it is worth. Some time ago a noted English 

 maker gave a gun as a prize, made to order, for the winner 

 in one of our United States shoots. Well, the gun came 

 and it was a "daisy" to look at, and according to all reports 

 could outshoot any gun. A friend borrowed it and brought 

 it to shoot over this same horse. A noted American maker 

 also brought one to shoot against it. Well, the American 

 maker's outshot it, but the shooting of both was below what 

 either was marked. The American maker said he had better 

 shooting guns in stock, but took the first one he came to. 

 This looks strange when there was so much talk about the 

 shooting of this gun. At that time the American maker 

 had never shot one of his guns at 40 yards (and don't now), 

 and at that time shot all of his guns from the shoulder, 

 which is a veiy uncertain way. He now uses, I am told, a 

 shooting horse. Yesterday I asked a good gunmaker why 

 it was that I could never get one of these guns that do such 

 shooting and what a good gun ought to do. "Well," he 

 said, "with all of your experimenting haven't you yet 

 learned that these guns are very, very scarce?" "The best 

 gun I ever saw is one I have heard them tell about." 



Hammerless. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



Perhaps a record of some actual experiments might be 

 more interesting than my views and opinions. 



After reading a .well-known English maker's book on 

 chokebored guns it occurred to me to test whether he could 

 make a gun for a moderate price which would do as well as 

 he says in his book guns ought to do. A gun to be of any 

 use must be a hard hitter as well as able to give a good pat- 

 tern. I therefore wrote to ask if he would make me a 

 light gun, 12-.gauge, weighing not over 7 pounds, and with 

 barrels not over 28 inches long, that would throw 70 per 

 cent, of the pellets of an ordinary charge of shot into a 30- 

 inch ring at 40 yards and also penetrate at least 30 out of 60 

 sheets of a Eennison pad. The answer was "Yes." The 

 gun was ordered and tested for mc by a careful operater with 

 the following results, which I need not say were very satis- 

 factory : 



RECORD OP TESTS 

 with a 7-pound, 12-bore, 28-ineh barrels, double hammerless Greener, 

 treble wedge-fast, No. 19,84S; 10 shots, all fired at 40 yds. into 30-meh 

 ring: Dennison target and pad of 60 sheets, from ordinary rest, wind 

 light. Powder used: Dupon'c Eagle Ducldng No. 2, two pink-edge 

 wads over powder; one Baldwin over shot. Shot used: l}$oz. of 

 Spark's Philadelphia chilled and soft No. 6 shot. 











Pattern 





Penetra- 





% 



.-!__. 



Powder 













« 111 



6 

 bo 

 £ 





H 



sl 



o 



M 



S 



Charges. 





§«&! *.i 



§ 





o 







otal 

 char 



nub' 

 Jf SI 















H J5 





K 



1 



R. 



3 drams. 



Chilled. 



253 



195 



.77 



28 



2 



R. 



3 drams. 



Soft. 



245 



218 



.89 



27 



8 



L. 



3 drams. 



Chilled. 



253 



175 



.69 



30 



4 



L. 



3 drams. 



Soft, 



245 



238 



.97 



25 











Average. 



....88 



27 



5 



R. 



3M drams. 

 3}4 drams. 

 314 drams. 



Chilled. 



253 



149 



.59 



31 



ti 



R. 



Soft. 



245 



226 



.92 



33 



7 



L, 



Chilled. 



253 



214 



.87 



31 



8 



L. 



8%, drams. 



Soft. 



245 



Av 



198 

 araee . 



.80 

 ....79 



32 

 32 



9 



R. 



%Y> drams. 



Chilled. 



253 



169 



.67 



36 



10 



R. 



Zy-, drams. 



Soft. 



245 



198 



.80 



30 



11 



L. 



314 drams. 



Chilled. 



253 



163 



.64 



42 



12 



L. 



3J4 drams. 



Soft. 



245 

 Av 



195 



eraxe . 



.80 



....73 



33 

 35 



13 



R. 



3% drams. 

 3^4 drams. 



Chilled. 



25:; 1 115 



57 



40 



14 



R. 



Soft. 



245 223 



.91 



32 



15 



L. 



8«l| drams. 

 3p| drams. 



Chilled. 



253 181 



,71 



40 



16 



L. 



Soft. 



245 I 167 



.69 



34 











Average. 



,,,.72 



86 



CRurht barrel 765 and 32 



Total averages j £eft ba rrel 771 and 33^ 



Several things are worthy of notice. First, the right and 

 left barrels shoot nearly alike, the left a little the better. 

 Second, chilled shot has the greatest penetration, but soft 

 shot makes the best pattern. Third, as the charge of pow- 

 der is increased the pattern is not so good but the penetra- 

 tion increases. , . 



I finally adopted a standard charge, consisting of 3i drams 

 powder and 1 ounce soft shot. This averages about ffc tor 

 pattern and 35 sheets penetration. I would suggest that 

 when careful experiment has determined the best charge tor 



any gun it should be engraved on the gun, or on a plate set 

 into the stock', as the information is too valuable to be lost. 



This gun makes very regular patterns, and inside of a 20- 

 inch ring at 40 yards leaves no holes the size of a quail un- 

 covered by shot. Owing to its barrels being comparatively 

 short and heavy at the breech, it balances well, and is alto- 

 gether the best gun for upland shooting I ever owned, while 

 its cost was moderate. 



Allow me to suggest that you take the above form, or with 

 improvements, and ask your correspondents to give actual 

 tests of their guns. Then if tabulated by you and published 

 would give us a common standard of comparison. 



Experimenter. 



Seabeight, n. J. 



Editor Forest and Stream: 



In reply to gun queries in your valuable paper of April 

 24, by "E. W." First, that a 16-bore gun will kill quite as 

 far as a 12 or a 14 bore provided they are bored on same 

 principle and are properly charged; but in 20-bore the force 

 of the shot would be greatly diminished — the range short- 

 ened. Second, small-bore barrels are made shorter than 

 barrels of larger bore to give proper pattern, as a 16-bore 

 barrel 30 or 32 inches long would shoot too close for any 

 use, while a 10 or 12 bore 28 inches long would be just the 

 reverse, the pattern would be too open. Third, there is no 

 use in having barrels longer than 30 inches in 12-bore or 32 

 inches in 10-bore, as long barrels will produce the same 

 effect as small bores — the force of the shot would be very 

 much lessened. Fourth, in 20-bore gun, barrels 28 inches, 

 would not have them choked under any consideration; but 

 if 16-bore would have right barrel cylinder aud left barrel 

 modified choke. R. H. M., Jr. 



Edgefield, S. C. 



Editor Forest and Scream: 



I use a 10-bore, 8-pound gun, and load my shells with a 

 thin Baldwin card wad on top of the powder, next an Eley's 

 f-inch white felt wad, then another Baldwin card wad, and 

 lastly a thin cardboard wad over the shot, "Byrne," in 

 issue of April 24, has expressed my views exactly about 

 those persons who can "kill every time" at 50 to 75 yards. 

 An occasional good shot does not justify a man in saying he 

 can do the same thing every time. In many cases no doubt 

 they magnify their feats in order to give spice to their tale, 

 yet how'lnuch more pleasure is derived from an article in 

 which you know the simple truth is told, and upon which 

 you can rely. Woodcock. 



Prixceton, N. J. 



THE CHOICE OF HUNTING RIFLES. 



Ed '/tor Forest and Stream: 



I would be much obliged if you or some of your corres- 

 pondents will be so kind as to inform me: First— With 

 what rifles were the extraordinary off-hand scores made in 

 the New York shooting gallery, at 200 yards, as recorded in 

 your paper for March 13? Second— Whether there are any 

 American sporting rifles from .40 to .45-sauge which, with 

 a charge of powder not less than one-third the weight of the 

 bullet, can be depended upon when fired from a rest.to put 

 several successive shots into a square of six inches width at 

 200 yards? If so I would be glad to know the names and 

 addresses of the manufacturers. 



Judging from the published targets there is no rifle which 

 seems "to me to make such fine shooting at sporting ranges as 

 the Maynard, the .40-gauge of which takes a charge of 

 powder one-fourth the weight of the bullet, and I am much 

 inclined to doubt if this proportion can be exceeded without 

 spoiling the accuracy at 200 yards. I have not yet seen an 

 express rifle which can be relied upon to hit a deer in the 

 right place at distances beyond 150 yards, and by the words 

 "ri°;t place," I mean not merely the heart, but anywhere in 

 the'thiek part of the lungs, a wound which will cause an 

 animal to drop quickly through suffocation even when made 

 by a bullet of moderate size. A deer hit in the wrong 

 place, such as the bowels, by a bullet of the largest size, 

 will frequently run for miles, and eventually escape to die 

 uselessly and In torture. While, therefore, appreciating a 

 flat trajectory very highly, 1 would never attempt to gain it 

 by a sacrifice of accuracy. 1 do not consider that any one 

 ought, for sport, to fire at an animal beyond 200 yards, but. 

 whatever the sporting range may be, the rifle ought to be 

 capable of hitting, at that range, the spot aimed at. 



As a very interesting controversy about the best kind ot 

 hunting rifle has been going on in your paper for some time 

 past, perhaps I may be permitted to give the result of my 

 own experience, having killed quantities of large game dur- 

 ing a residence of several years in India, and a few deer in 

 America. I have used eight different rifles, varying in gauge 

 from a .36 express with 20 grains of powder and 150 grains 

 of lead, to one with a round bullet weighing 13 to the pound 

 and 90 grains of powder. As an all-round weapon, to be con- 

 stantly in the sportsman's hand, for use in both thick brush 

 and open ground, there is nothing made in the British mar- 

 ket equal "to a double-barreled central fire .45 express about 

 nine pounds weight, with a powder charge not exceeding 125 

 grains and a hollow bullet of not more than 300 grains, hard- 

 ened with one-tenth or one-twelfth part of tin. It, is light 

 enough to be carried all day with comfort by a man of average 

 strength ; it requires when fired at an animal's shoulder, no 

 judging of distance up to 150 yards, and when properly 

 handled, has been proved by plenty of good sportsmen to be 

 powerful enough for killing tigers and polar bears, which 

 are doubtless as tenacious of life as the American grizzly 

 bear With a stock like that of a shotgun and held agamst 

 the shoulder, the recoil is not unpleasant, and is not even 

 felt when firing at game. Doubtless it would bruise severely 

 if the rifle had a short stock with crescent-shaped butt and 

 were held at the upper arm in the American iashion. The 

 latter system I personally prefer when the charge is light in 

 proportion to the weight of barrel, for mere off-hand skoot- 

 mff at a mark, but it is not good for quick shooting at game. 



%ith regard to the weight, the late Capt Forsyth, of the 

 Indian army, in his book upon the sporting rifle, said that 

 he found 9 pounds about as much as an average man could 

 carry for any length of time and use effectively. My own 

 experience agrees with his. and when out shooting in India 

 with men who had rifles of 10 or 12 pounds weight I have 

 always noticed that they often gave them to attendants to 

 carry and thus risked losing good chances of game. I am 

 of average strength, and was in the habit for many years of 

 walking in the American bush and Indian jungles, fre- 

 quently for eight or ten hours daily, yet found that when 

 fatigued I could not use a rifle of even 9* pounds with the 

 same quickness and precision as one of half a poundless 

 weight. Taking, then, 9 pounds as about the weight, it is 

 difficult to see how any gauge can be equal to .45. If, for 



